Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]390849[/snapback]</div>

Just the clear delusion in posts within this thread are scary. I sense that people with such a warped sense of reality are capable of anything to prove themselves right. My favorite Bertrand Russell quote is: "Politics allow bad people to do bad things. It takes religion to make good people do bad things.

I think its interesting to point out that seldom are the "area atheists" involved in scandals or general weirdness like religious people are.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 10:54 AM) [snapback]390849[/snapback]</div>

:huh: It looks as if your lumping some theatrical TV people out there into the entire group, and casting your vote to the negative..

I guess if you take the word religion out of the mix and replace it with PRIUS.

Then the same could be said of prius owners, just because some are egotistical smarter than you liberals trying to cram their global warming, political, polution & world view issues on everyone they meet. We should lump all prius owners into the same category.... :mellow:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Feb 15 2007, 11:11 AM) [snapback]390862[/snapback]</div>

I guess when you die, you'll have to come back and tell us about it, Tell us if we are wrong or right...

Im done with this thread all we are doing is reverting back to mudslining and childish arguing. B)

 

Sadly, the many religions in the world today seem to be about war more than anything else. Love your bretheren. Unless of course they believe something different than what you do. Then you convert them or kill them. Sad, sad, sad.

Interesting how this part of my response was not copied.

Priusguy: Dude- Catholic priests are theatrical TV people???
Not a real love your bretheren type guy are you?


Have fun with your religious debate (argument) here. I do believe that God is real. Again, it's the religious holier than thou know it all nuts that I don't like.

Oh well, back to the fun threads for me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]390876[/snapback]</div>

 

I've seen no stronger arguments for polytheism than from windstrings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]390849[/snapback]</div>

What about killing or judging in the name of religion, a huge infraction in my book? This to me seems to be a bigger sin than living one's life on earth in a moral manner and be shuned by God for the hereafter merely because you don't believe in Him.

This brings me to another scenario. I haven't read the next page of posts, so maybe it's addressed there. If it is, my apologies extended. All the while in this thread everyone is telling me that I won't be accepted by God in the after life, even if I live my life in the highest of moral manner here on earth, so long as I spend my days as a non believer. Basically, he would still turn me away in light of this. Even if I asked for forgivness for my non belief that was derived from ignorance and not malicious intent. He would not forgive me. Period.

Now, move on to an individual that has committed murder, beat his wife and kicked his dog. He's never provided a kind act to another but has welcomed God into his heart and life. He honestly believes he acts under God's wishes. He committed these acts only once each and each time found the errors of his ways and had remorse. He prayed for forgiveness and had subsequently altered his ways. God, since He is the original source of all forgiveness, forgives this man and on this individual's judgment day he is accepted to the hereafter to live in God's presence for eternity.

Since God is considered the original source of forgiveness and since He expects forgiveness to be practiced by his followers, the above scenario seems to me to be yet another contradiction in this religion. This religion seems to me to present many contradictions that go unexplained. Yet, I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to them and just have faith and perceive this as a perfect system. I've not yet known of a perfect system, so how can I be expected to consider this religion perfect as you all so do when so many questions present even more questions to which no sound answer is available? Let me ask you, would you rather spend your after life in heaven by God's side with a bunch of murders, thieves, people who betray and that have found the errors of their ways for those infractions, but that lacked sound enough judgment to not have committed these sins in the first place and as such are suseptible to commit further sins based on unsound judgment; or would you want to live in an after life with people who conducted their lives within moral reason who simply didn't believe in your God during their life? This just doesn't make sense to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 15 2007, 11:34 AM) [snapback]390871[/snapback]</div>

I love the way you say "you liberals." And once again, you've proven to me how I don't truly believe you have accepted God or Jesus into your heart. You may think you have, but you haven't.

And, I think that's the case in probably half of so-called Christians. They wear the name, but don't live the life. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. That's not a Christian. That's a poser.

You've accepted neocon rhetoric into your heart. IMHO. Not Christ's teachings. (Notice I said CHRIST's teachings, not man's.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 14 2007, 09:48 PM) [snapback]390664[/snapback]</div>

Where she spends eternity depends on her belief in Jesus Christ and his forgiveness for her sin. I think there are a lot of people running around as Christians who aren't really Christians. If you see a tree, how do you know if it is an Gala Apple tree or a Washington Red apple tree? Watch it for a season and look for the fruit.

I have a grandma who claims to be a Christian, but she sure doesn't act like one. It's not for me to decide if she is one and she's doing a poor job of representing the company brand, or if she isn't one and her actions speak louder than the label she put on herself. God knows.

Same with all the people who are listed on this thread who've done wrong by what their standards should be. I also know that real bonified worshipers of Jesus Christ somehow find their way into situations and make decisions that are 100 opposed to what God wants from us. Accepting Christ never made anyone a perfect person, only a forgiven person who will not have to spend eternity in hell for their sins. That's it.

A kid accepts Christ at a youth retreat at age 12, does hard drugs, acid rock music and ends up dead in a gang fight at 19. I do not know.... thankfully I'm not given the job to figure it out.

I know I don't get it all right. I don't pretend to have it all together. I do have the confidence that I can pick it up again this morning and try again and that I can ask to be forgiven for the sins I commit and through Christ Jesus, God forgives me and we go on another day.

Hopefully anyone would look at my life and see much of the right fruit hanging from the branches and when you see the rotten fruit hanging of a branch or two, you realize I'm a guy with things left to clean up in my act.

Things are much different now than they were before. Priorities are different, actions are different.

That settles the 'where' end of the conversation. The Bible speaks of rewards. True believers who basically never engaged in the company business won't have much in the rewards category upon arrival. It's not a contest of you doing more or less than me, it's relational to how you did with what you were asked to do. Many true believers are not doing much with what they are asked to be doing. Look up tithing statistics for the evangelical church to get a benchmark for how this is going.

 

Rightly said, Daron. I agree wholeheartedly with you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 15 2007, 12:10 AM) [snapback]390636[/snapback]</div>

Now, was that too hard to say? It almost sounds like you are saying what I have said...which would mean you are close to an agreement with one issue I have.


Wow. That must be a sign of the end times, ya know, we close to an agreement.


And this:
" Who knows.. but being anywhere at all in heaven will be phenominal existence for eternity!!!!"



I agree with that 150% ! Who knows indeed!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]390781[/snapback]</div>

Those things scare me as well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]390876[/snapback]</div>

I don't like nuts either. Get stuck in your teeth. Hard to deal with.

This is why I don't like religion, of any kind. At least, I don't like organized religion. Too many people muck it up.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 15 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]390871[/snapback]</div>

Are you done or tired? Because you replied after you were done...now, tired, that is another thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]390781[/snapback]</div>

Now try to be "perfectly" honest with yourself... knowing God never changes..close your eyes and imagine your liveing 2000 years ago and all of a sudden this"Jesus" guy shows up... totally breaking the rules of the accepted norm of today's church... he "heals", even raises the dead "at least thats what you've heard" and he seems to make up his own rules that the religious teachers don't understand and even calls himself the son of God!!!!!

Now he's got 12 guys following him around that are doing the same!!!


Wouldn't they scare you too?

So you want real religion or just to play patticake?


I tend to think "any" religious leader or a anyone speaking Gods words would scare the hell out of you... maybe thats to objective!.. have you ever thought of that! LOL!



Hanging with God is always in the very least scary and exciting at the same time.. you are not in control and you never know what He's going to do next.... He's sovereign, so he gets to choose.



Aren't you tired of a God that lives in a little box that comes out only when you put in your quarter?



Do you want a majic genie to do your bidding as you dictate, or do you want a relationship with the maker of the universe?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 15 2007, 04:59 PM) [snapback]391080[/snapback]</div>

Wow. Windstrings has been designated by the almighty to tell everyone else who and what God is. What a condescending pompous attitude you have.
I've read some excellent and humble replies here notably from TJ and Daron. Yours does not rank among them.

 

Yes TJG, Im just tired...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Feb 15 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]391090[/snapback]</div>

Fortunately you aren't my judge..... sorry if you feel condescended too.......


Are you another that can't take truth unless thier stroking your feathers while they do it?


I tend to think your refusal to accept truth may be a much stronger indication of lack of humility... but I'm not your judge either....



Are you sure you don't suffer from a pompus attitude?... its pretty easy to see it in another, but you sound like you willingness to judge my heart may mean you are the guilty party.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 15 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]390946[/snapback]</div>

Again I could care less what you think of me or my religious beliefs, I will stand in front of God on judgement day and answer for my actions, Lively chick ! But thanks for pointing out my Type-O....

There for some reason it didn't take the first time...

Hmm the qoute sounds the same as the religion arguement.... <_<

So here we are at the tail end of a damm good informative thread. I guess the name calling will start, so that those who love to argue can do so..

 

So none of you Christians have been able to answer... why there couldn't be multiple gods? Just because you can't see them, means they exist. What if there are multiple gods and you go the judgement - and find that you were wrong?

At least the multiple god hypothesis explains the lack of internal consistency in the Bible...

AND - none of you have been able to address this:

I submit to you this - evidence that man not only wrote the Bible, but conceived of every bit of it without any input from any other force or whatever you'd like to call it... is the lack of internal consistency. I mean come on, what kind of god says one thing and then another in the same book? Isn't god supposedly all-knowing? Certainly, a lack of internal consistency tells me that a not-so-all-knowing intelligence wrote the bible.

And speaking of internal consistency... the Quran was written with much more internal consistency... you should read it. What say you about internal consistency?

I suppose you will then say it is god's will to say what he wants... to that which I counter: isn't anger an attribute to all things earthly? Why would this thing have such pathetic, to say the least, whimsical and fleeting notions?

I've been waiting quite a bit of time in this thread for you gung ho Christians to address these points... I can only conclude, by your lack of response, that it's quite inconvenient for you to address...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 15 2007, 04:42 PM) [snapback]391143[/snapback]</div>

Priusguy, what makes it exhausting is the unrelenting lack arrogance of attack against words that are trying to save and help.



Trying to reason with madmen and conciousness that has been darkened and wounded is nearly impossible.



Normally, any good strategy to win a fight is not not just play "defense" as it can be very tiring.. especially when your outnumbered by far.

But giving offensive blows is not in the heart of Christians as they are not trying to harm but to provide good news to those who ask for it.



But many are happy with their way of life and thier lusts and sins as everyman is right in his own eyes and they have never had it better, so they have nothing to compare too.



Its easy to assume "all is well" when you go unchallenged and no catastrophes are occuring... this is why evil men wax more and more evil.. because they see no judgement, they assume thier actions are not noticed and are even being rewarded with benifits.



There is never anything wrong with being offensive in the sense to ask serious questions that makes those who are asleep consider thier ways. But some are not asleep, they are dead.



I really think few have a soft enough heart do do anything else but be obstinate and argue until calamity comes.



Bad times are indeed ahead for us, and those who were so arrogant will be humbled and brought low as they freak out as thier "control" is taken away and they have no peace or anyone stronger than themselves to turn to because "Oh they didn't want a "crutch"".

As thier nice car and house and job and cute boyfriend or girlfriend means nothing and cannot save them.



Well a crutch ain't half bad when you need it.... they just don't realize they need it yet.



They don't even realize they are stumbling yet, they walk in so much darkness!.. and those who do know they stumble, have no idea as to why or what is causing them to stumble.



Groping blindly through life without peace... having to scrap for every piece of meat they get in a dog eat dog world of survival... Only the crafty, decietful and strongest seem to get their way, so they adopt strategies of promotion that see christianity as foolish and unprofitable not realizing the "rest" that comes with serving God.



Funny how all we had to have was some planes crash into a couple of buildings and so many people all of a sudden decide its now a priority to find God!..



Oh yes.. you could see it everywhere "In God we trust"...... uh huh!



I really think when real calamity happens, so many who speak so arrogant and high minded will wish they had your words to guide them as they falter in thier peril without a guide.



Keep the faith baby!.... when you get tired.. it either means the fight is over, or someone else is suppose to be doing the fighting now!.....



This indeed is a tag team and there are much more of them than us, but one with God is a majority!

HIs words are piercing and powerful.. they hit like darts and they can't shake them and they try to forget the words of the Lord in order to get sleep at night!...



They are in torment trying to justify thier sin they love.



They hate it when someone shows it to them too... rather than say "thanks" they want to tear them in pieces as they did when Jesus confronted them and pointed out their love of sin and the works of the Devil.



Don't let it bother you, it comes with the territory..... they persecuted Jesus too... They think they control thier lives and serve themselves, and don't realize whose bidding they serve......its thier job as devil servants and they dont' even know they are pawns in his hands.

 

Oh windstrings, I am politely asking you to answer these questions - but now you're not even acknowledging them... seems like... you're giving up because I've posed some questions that are not comfortable for you to answer... indicating to me that your religious beliefs have some flaws in them. Care to address the points I bring up?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Feb 15 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]391186[/snapback]</div>

Go find a dictionary as see what God means... it has something to do with "supreme" being...



This only goes to show you your lack ability to reason.



Your brain has been darkened and poisoned so it cannot function like it was created.



You can have many Kings, but you can only have "one" King of all Kings.



Yes, their are many who have set themselves up as gods, but thier is only One God!... and those three are one!...



Now are you confused yet?



Let me help a bit more... his prayer was that we may be one, even as He and is Father are one.



Blow your mind some more eh?



Don't bother trying to figure it out.. your having trouble with the easy stuff.



I'm not saying your "stupid", just have far more to learn than you ever imagine.....



God is so vast and deep, yet so simple that the wise cannot see him as God confounds them with his love and takes them in thier own craftiness.

 

You still haven't addressed the other arguments - like why would an all-knowing "God" not be internally consistent? It tells me that it is evidence that your god had nothing to do with the bible.

Here are some examples of these contradictions:

When second coming?
MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

1 thessalonians 4:15-18


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Solomon's overseers
550 in I Kings 9:23
250 in II Chron 8:10


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The mother of Abijah:
Maachah the daughter of Absalom 2 Chron 9:20

Michaiah the daughter of Uriel 2 Chron 13:2


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When did Baasha die?
26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8

36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1


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How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 in 2 Kings 8:26

42 in 2 Chron 22:2


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Who was Josiah's successor?
Jehoahaz - 2 Chron 36:1

Shallum - Jeremiah 22:11