Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 26 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]396786[/snapback]</div>

Or an ant that farts, and wonders if anyone notices that it farted.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 26 2007, 04:45 AM) [snapback]396602[/snapback]</div>

Does the coal have to be on fire or will cold coal do?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 26 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]396786[/snapback]</div>

Providing they even believe in Jesus first of all.. without that, they are false and have no power other than the devils lying wonders.
No power to heal the sick, cast out devils, or live in peace... take away Jesus and all of that is Gone.

Now lets move on past that... providing "Jesus" is the common denominator of their doctrine and that they know he is the son of God that died for the sins of the world and has been given all power and authority to rule and reign.... providing they know that...

then mediocre means the typical last days church that is lukewarm.. they are called laodicean church:

(Rev 3:14 KJV) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
(Rev 3:15 KJV) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
(Rev 3:16 KJV) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
(Rev 3:17 KJV) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

So many churches now a days talk the talk and will tell you all about Jesus but freak out when you press them for real works of the believer.

(Mark 16:17 KJV) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

(2 Tim 3:1 KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2 Tim 3:2 KJV) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(2 Tim 3:3 KJV) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(2 Tim 3:4 KJV) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
(2 Tim 3:5 KJV) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (Having a "form" of godliness implies a church)
(2 Tim 3:6 KJV) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, ( a little side sex?)
(2 Tim 3:7 KJV) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. They study the word and know it better than most, yet miss the message of the truth that lies therein.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]396995[/snapback]</div>

BULLS**T!!!!!!!!

What a craven insult to physicians the world over who heal the desperately ill by the thousands every day and do it without a molecule of Jesus or any other superstitious harem-scarem - in fact, do it BECAUSE they don't invoke Jesus or superstitious harem-scarem.

As to living in peace - brother, take a look at history and observe the bloody mayhem inflicted on peaceful people in all nations by "missionaries" and "prophets" and all manner of self-righteous bastards who wreaked war on entire cultures in the name of Jesus. I don't need Jesus to live peacefully, and if you're incapable of living peacefully with your neighbor except for your fear of divine retribution, you've got a serious ethical deficiency. Fear of some childish god's punishment shouldn't be what compels us to behave civilly; sheer moral decency is all that's necessary.

Put another way, if you got an unambiguous message from Jesus that he was REJECTING you, that you had no hope of attaining heaven, would still maintain moral decency toward fellow humanity or would you go on a tear and shoot up a shopping mall? Don't reply by claiming such rejection is impossible, accept the proposition in its rhetorical spirit and consider the ethical situation as presented. If all that saves us from you inflicting moral depravity on us is your belief that Jesus loves you, that you can't find it within yourself to be decent for decency's sake alone, then I'd have to say your moral compass is worthless and you present a possible menace.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]396995[/snapback]</div>

Does the coal have to be on fire or will cold coal do? :blink: :huh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I take the qoute as saying, No power to heal the sick= Jesus healed without medicine. Today we live on medicine. cast out devils=he could remove demons and sent them into swine. Today they drug the demons host body into a stupor thus subdoing the effect. live in peace=his deciples and those who followed him lived peaceful lives thru thier faith. Today there really isnt peace on a worldly non-faith stance....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb, 07:02 PM) [snapback]397022[/snapback]</div>

This statement is completely opposite to my observations.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 26 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]397014[/snapback]</div>

Nice that we got a rise out of you!

*When you water a tree.. are you the one that makes it grow?
*When you save an animal that fell in a pit.. did you give it life?.. or did it already have it and you just prevented it from being lost?
*Why does a doctor do one thing for one person and they recover and do the exact same thing for another and they die?
*Who has the power over life and death?
*What is the difference between saving someone that fell in a hole verses giving them a pill to chase away fever?
*If you give someone a drink thats thirsty and save thier life... did you give them life?
*Doctors study the elements and herbs of the earth as well as manmade substances that alter body mechanics to aid in longevity....
God has given life, sin takes it away and modern medicine helps alter the effects of that sin on the body.
God has nothing against medicine.
(Ezek 47:12 KJV) And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

God have given us the earth as our norishment for meat and for medicine.... but God has the power over life regardless.

(1 Cor 3:6 KJV) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
(1 Cor 3:7 KJV) So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

It sounds like your the type of person that has to have everything stripped from him before he realizes who gave it to him in the first place?

You are so arrogant and unknowledgable... you act as if you don't need God, but yet your so fragile that you can't even live without air, food and water.

You have no power at all except God has already given it to you...
He gives you the power to make wealth to provide for yourself.. just like he gives the birds power to find food.

You are so lofty because you know not God.
Fortunately God is rich in mercy....and because you "know not what you do" his heart is to forgive you... but you walk a dangerous walk to raise your fist at God to say you don't need him... when the first little tiny calamity hits that could totally take you out and render you totally helpless you may see differently and reconsider.
If God was to remove his protection from you, in a moment, you could have a stroke, heart attack or simply die in the next intersection you cross... do you have power to stop that?

There was once a king who had a learning experience that gave him revelation.

(Dan 4:30 KJV) The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
(Dan 4:31 KJV) While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
(Dan 4:32 KJV) And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
(Dan 4:33 KJV) The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
(Dan 4:34 KJV) And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
(Dan 4:35 KJV) And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
(Dan 4:36 KJV) At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
(Dan 4:37 KJV) Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Your railing has no point if God doesn't exist?.. why are you even posting?
Are you acting out as a child who is trying to evoke a response from God?

There are ways to approach God that are favorable, but the way you are doing it, you may not like how he answers.. but it will be worth it if it saves your soul in the end.

Only God knows if you will respond best to mercy or judgement... thats in his hands.
How ever the response, it will be out of love to reach you.








<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Feb 26 2007, 09:25 PM) [snapback]397034[/snapback]</div>

Until the pool is still and calm, you never know peace.

If all you have ever known is noise, you may have to sleep to it to drown out the other thoughts and noises in your head.

Until you know Peace, you don't know you don't have it.

People who live in the city to the noises of sirens, horns, gunshots, screaming and general commotion learn to block it out and go to sleep at night..... they think they have peace.
Then one day they go out in the country miles away from the city lights and see the stars that seem like they are right over your head and only hear the gentle stirring of the creek and the gentle breezes go through the trees, then they realize they never had peace in the city.

Finding God is that gentle stream and that gentle breeze and that starry night.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that can happen when you so blithely insult an entire profession.

You've wholly ignored the major two paragraphs of my post inquiring into your moral stature. I'll ask again - are you capable of remaining a moral person without Jesus? Don't brush this question off - how you answer will say volumes about your fitness as an ethical human being.

Somewhere in your ramblings you call me
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

I'm not the one claiming to know the mind of god, to know what god wants and what god does not want, to know god's plan for the entire universe, to know with complete certainty the destiny of an entire species to the end of eternity. THAT is arrogance, brother, not my calling you on a crass, ignorant insult to one of mankind's most noble and successful endeavors. Who are you, an infinitesimal prick of animate molecules on a mote of dust in a sliver of time, to pretend to know god? If there were such a god as you imagine, full of childish, human weaknesses, it would be as deeply insulted by your pretense of knowing its mind as you think it insulted by my mocking it.

And your god is nothing if not petty, immature, insecure:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Not much of a god if it can't handle a few molecules of a temporary chemical reaction not believing in it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

You're absolutely right on both counts, 100%. I don't need god, but I sure do need air, food and water. What's your point - that by disbelieving in it god'll take away my air, food or water? Pshaw. See above for what I think about such a puerile, mean-spirited god, micro-managing a handful of ungrateful atoms in the vastness of the universe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

To counter insulting nonsense; whether god exists or not is irrelevant: your insults are insults god or no god.


To answer some of your countering questions:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Very much so, if I am that tree's only source of water. Without water the chemical reactions that we call life and growth would cease. Giving it water sustains the chemical reactions, and if I'm the only source of the water, I'm the one that makes it grow.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Damn straight I did. See above.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

No two people are identical, even identical twins; we are all unique. No one knows that fact more deeply and tragically than the physician, who can only hope the relative coarseness of most therapies will succeed in each new patient. That's why the medical profession never ceases its investigations to more thoroughly understand the intricacies of anatomy, to hone its therapies and refine them so that they are less sensistive to the differences between individuals. To think that some imperious god called thumbs up or down is fatuous, ignorant and profoundly disrespectful of enormous achievement, like spitting on The Last Supper.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

To a degree unprecedented in history, we do, and tomorrow we'll have even greater command over our lives and power to forestall death.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

You insult my intellect when you imply that some personal misfortune would drive me to believe in a fairy tale. I've had plenty of misfortune - anyone who's alive has experienced misfortune by the bucketload. You avert further misfortune by learning from the bangs and bruises already sustained, not by imploring some fairy tale to spare you. You insult my intellect further by saying that fairy tale is "protecting" me from misfortune - and you compound the insult by implying I haven't the power to avert misfortune, when all of human history is a resounding testament that we can and DO, not just avert misfortune, but improve our prosperity and fortunes beyond the most fantastic dreams of the generations that preceded us, without gods, indeed, despite the heavy drag backward of those who persist in believing in gods.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, right. "Until you think like I do, you can never be right."

We all think like this, to some extent, whether we want to or not, don't we?
Yet it's certainly less than convincing.

So please stop proselytizing to me. I'm not buying it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb, 07:35 PM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Now if this ain't the height of heightiness.

I guess anybody who dies crossing the street wasn't a "true" believer.

Get over yourself.

 

Super stuff. I will have to think about what Mark had to say, and Dragonfly.

To windy, please, please, use another version of the Bible to quote from; even the NKJV would be preferred. Maybe something written in the 20th century...

Are you trying to drive people away from Christ, or towards Him? If I was not a Preacher, and I was here, I would not even give you the time of day whilst you continue to quote old King James.

And sometimes with your replies; you come across as a arrogant person; unable to bend, so sure you are correct that it is almost beneath you to speak with others lower then your intelligence level.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 26 2007, 11:49 PM) [snapback]397014[/snapback]</div>

Amen.

Those who have killed in Jesus name, well, they certainly didn't get it, did they? Why can't people just live in peace with each other? It eludes me.

It's part of my belief that most people are selfish bastards, and that includes Christians.

I mean it. When was the last time anyone besides me put away the shopping cart? I am being 100% serious. It seems trivial, putting away the shopping cart, but it is not.
If we all put away the shopping cart when we were done with them, we then would have less people pissed that their car got dinged by some cart, left by some selfish bastard.
Follow me here.
That pissed off person, is driving home, when someone cuts them off. They flip them off. This in turn enrages the second party, who now slams on the brakes and gets out of the car, and comes back to the person who flipped them off.

That person, already mad, gets out. They start to shout at each other. Another person, watching this, is distracted, and then slams into the car in front of them. That person, who just got rear ended, spills their coffee on their pants. Later, they sue McDonald's for a million dollars, for having hot coffee. McDonald's, can not afford to pay that, and keep the Ronald McDonald house open in that city, so the Ronald McDonald house closes down.

This allows Timmy to not have his parents with him, when he is dying of some horrible disease, so he dies in pain, and alone. Timmy's parents are members of the presidents administration, and when they relate to the president what happened, to Timmy, the president then gets in a foul mood. Which is the worse mood to be in, when the news hits his desk that Iran has a nuclear weapon, so in order to put a stop to this before it gets out of hand, and already in a foul mood, he orders an attack, which causes the beginning of the third world war.

All because the cart did not get put away by one single selfish bastard.

So stop war. Put away the cart.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 27 2007, 12:35 AM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

You sir, take the cake, then spread it all around your face, whilst saying, 'No cake for you! All for me!'

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 27 2007, 12:35 AM) [snapback]397037[/snapback]</div>

Could you possibly see what that one line says about you, and your faith in Christ?
Would Christ have said that? In any language? If He did, I bet he would have spelled this word, quoting from you: "unknowledgable" correctly at least...(spell check; it's free and easy to use)


Wait for it. Now windy will come back with a King James quote saying somehow, that yes indeed, Christ would have said that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 11:10 PM) [snapback]396995[/snapback]</div>

I would expect someone who quotes the Bible to understand it, but you don't.

2 Timothy 3:7
They get exploited every time and never really learn.

To put that in context, let me wrap it with the other verses around it.

2 Timothy 3:6 –2 Timothy 3:9
These are the kind of people who smooth-talk themselves into the homes of unstable and needy people and take advantage of them; people who, depressed by their sinfulness, take up with every new religious fad that calls itself “truth.”

They get exploited every time and never really learn. These who do this? They are like those old frauds James and Tammy Fay Baker. They were rejects from the faith, twisted in their thinking, defying truth itself. But nothing will come of these latest impostors. Everyone will see through them, just as people saw through the Baker hoax.
======================
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 11:10 PM) [snapback]396995[/snapback]</div>

YOU miss the message of truth. And that is, to love, to not get into every one's business, saying they are wrong. Who is to say that you are right? Or wrong? I may be wrong. I may have this all wrong. So what?

On the other hand, I may have it all correct, and then, well, so what? In the end, it's not up to you or me, where anyone else spends their time after death.



BTW, windy, why can't you answer my question as to who you (or lovittoomuch, or piousguy04) are? Why are you afraid to answer that simple question? It says something to me, that you can't answer that. It's like the other questions I have posed, that never get an answer from you three. Weird that is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Feb 27 2007, 03:00 AM) [snapback]397093[/snapback]</div>

You know? We all can die at any time. Right now. Any second. And since no one, has come back from either heaven or hell, or wherever, to tell us what happens, do what you want. Live life happy.

If you want to live life that way, cool with me.


I am fully aware that there are 'Christians' who believe it's their job to make you join, or convert, or whatever, but this preacher, me, I am not one of them.

I care that you are happy, and that you are at peace with your decision, but otherwise, it's not up to me, what you believe, or don't believe.

I use to run, along with another guy, The Church Of The Bunny (I think you can Google that). Anyway, I was Vice Pope TJ, and the Pope was Pope Rich. And we use to make fun of organized religions, and to some extent, I still do. One thing that I believed, when I was Vice Pope, was to have fun right now, for you never know when you die. No one does. At least those of us not on death row with a date for extermination.

At some point, when I would make fun of the fundies, and quote back the Bible at them, I turned around, and got on this path that I am now. I ran from God, from being a Preacher, for a long, long time. But I changed.

Not saying everyone does, or should, change. But, I changed. Some. I am still a bit off the beaten 'Christian' path, and I still like to make fun of the fundies, but the one thing that I have now, that I did not have then, is a peace that I will go to heaven, at least I believe I will. And heaven to me, is just a really groovy place, with all you can eat Sonny's, and Coke that flows freely from the sink in my house.

Or not. Doesn't really matter what I think it is; again, no one had come back with a report. But I am at peace with my decision, and that that's all I want anyone to be at, is at peace.

If Jesus was here, right now, He would not argue with Buddha, or Mohammad, or John Smith. He would just have a hearty laugh, and engage them in a lively debate.

In the end, all that matters, is where your heart is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 26 2007, 11:50 PM) [snapback]397106[/snapback]</div>

Y'know, there's more truth and wisdom in those 7 words than in all the volumes and essays of Howard Zinn, Lewis Latham, Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky combined. And you thought you were being flip.

I'm no expert on the bible, but I doubt it addresses the notion that large positive sociological effects are simply the cumulative outcome a trillion tiny acts of decency, and you get to a trillion by making decency and consideration a personal habit. Or if it does, I've never heard or seen the requisite verses stated.

Pretty important lesson to learn, if you ask me. The problem of course is that a god is superfluous to the equation, so a bible's authors and editors would be inclined to omit it and instead stuff in another useless chapter on the proper protocol of how to hold one's tongue against the left lower molars while praying after 3:00 on Tuesdays. Or what god did to eighty generations of offspring of some poor hapless bastard who held his tongue in the wrong spot, prayed before 3:00 and did it on Thursday.

Outdoing the bible as a moral guide in an automotive chatboard, and in only 7 words! Who'd've guessed! Thanks for the lesson, TJ!

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 27 2007, 05:39 AM) [snapback]397113[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I was not being flip, at all.


I really meant it. In that way, that all things are connected, so being kind with a simple act, can speak volumes.

I really do put away the cart!


Thanks for your kind words!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 02:16 AM) [snapback]397105[/snapback]</div>

What the version your reading from there TJG?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 03:29 AM) [snapback]397111[/snapback]</div>

This explains everything!

Due to my profession, I would never reveal my real name I would be a fool to do so B) ...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 27 2007, 07:46 AM) [snapback]397120[/snapback]</div>

I read from The Message, and sometimes from the Street Bible, and then there is my own 'translation', that is more street slang.


I study from a number of versions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 27 2007, 07:58 AM) [snapback]397122[/snapback]</div>

This does, indeed, say a lot about your weak character then. You are scared then, that someone would know who you are, and in doing so, would know you are a 'religious nut', is that it?

Won't God protect you? He protects me. What is your first name at least...Mine, is already known: I am TJ . And I am not afraid to admit that I am a Preacher, a Pastor, a Man who follows Christ.


Be it for better or for worse.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 06:09 AM) [snapback]397124[/snapback]</div>

This does, indeed, say a lot about your weak character then.(thank you for judging me) You are scared then, that someone would know who you are, and in doing so, would know you are a 'religious nut', is that it? I see you judge others just as you put down the "fundies" as you call them for JUDGING others,

I as well as others are finding out how more nutty you are in every post!

And think what you wish, I was told to never reveal who I am on line or in person other than work..

What bible version are you quoting from??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 27 2007, 08:20 AM) [snapback]397128[/snapback]</div>

I am indeed, judging you. But who doesn't judge, in this case? You are weak, or at least appear that way, when you can't reveal your name. I mean, come on. This is the internets. You could have, and not one person here would have known otherwise, said your name is 'Fred', and we would have all bought it.


But instead, you pass on this bull about 'I was told to never reveal who I am on line or in person other then work'



Big government spy , huh? Again. If you believe in God and His protection, you would just say your name, but since it's clear you don't, based on your hesitance, then yes, I am once again judging you, based on your words here.

Am I nutty? Depends on your POV: Is it nutty to have an open mind? To you and some of your kind, the fundies as I call them, it must be.

And I told you what Bible(s) I quote from: The Message, The Street Bible, and my own slang version. I can understand you not having heard of my take; but The Message is a HUGE current version, and so is The Street Bible.

Oh, ye who only read the KJV... :lol:

 

I, too, put away the carts. So I guess that makes us even Tiny.