Down to the Rapture

This thread is one for the Guinness Book! Less than a month and a half old, it already stands at 8,400 views and 759 responses, eclipsing even some of the games (which I don't count because they aren't threads, they're idle amusement (which could be said of many legitimate threads, I know, but let's not get distracted)). It doesn't just hold the record, it trounces its nearest competitor thread: "Your Thoughts On Gay Marriage", started back on Feb 23, 2004, that got only 585 responses before going dormant more than 2 years later on May 10, 2006. It did attract 19,591 views in that time - can you imagine what THIS thread's stats will be if it keeps on keepin' on for 2 years!

I wonder what, if anything, it says about this predominantly progressive, yes, liberal crowd which, by my poll, is about a third atheist and a quarter agnostic, that the two topics it finds MOST compelling are religion and gay marriage.

Meanwhile, the OP deserves a prize for starting the most durable Fred's thread yet!

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 7 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]401720[/snapback]</div>

Condemning implies a judgement.. we cannot do that....

But we can tell you when your dead wrong....

Maybe you forgot to include Jesus in you class of instructors that you took your que from.

Jesus would most certainly correct you and tell you that any religion not of his Father is of the devil.

There are many houses, many denominations, but as long as they all believe Jesus is the son of God who died for the sins of the world they are all under the same roof.

The spirit of antichrist is the religions that teach different.

You are still wrong if you think you can believe anything you want and Jesus would just accept your teaching as ok.......

Do you and your "teachers" also condone homosexualism?.. how about fornication?
How about the 10 commandments.... one of which is the serve "THE" lord they God with all they heart... he didn't mean any god?

Just what kind of cemetary "I mean seminary" did you study in anyway?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 7 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]401747[/snapback]</div>

Divorce was never in the heart of God... he did not program us to take it gracefully at all. It rips out our guts.. it tends to destroy our children and scars hearts so deeply that few fully recover.

But in some situations its the lesser of two evils... its better than being beat up every night, or watching your daughter get abused by a drunk Father.

God acually "gave" divorce to moses as he was having trouble managing the millions of people he had to lead as he asked God for an answer.

(Mat 19:4 NKJV) And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,'
(Mat 19:5 NKJV) "and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
(Mat 19:6 NKJV) "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."
(Mat 19:7 NKJV) They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"
(Mat 19:8 NKJV) He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
(Mat 19:9 NKJV) "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."

But whatever the reason.... we all reap what we have sown.. but God forgives the sin if we ask and will often give grace to buffer the blow of what we reap.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 7 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]401747[/snapback]</div>

Nothing wrong at all if you have been widowed... God has special grace for widows for whatever reason since they are not under the covering of a husband... he steps in as one instead.

God made us to "need" a father and mother both, but there is no sin implied for raising your child single if you were abandoned or similiar.

Even as a man and a woman carry different strengths and perceptions that make a whole.... that completeness carries over to the father and mother too for a child.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]402237[/snapback]</div>

Not mean't to insult...only to let you know your missing something big..... eyesight!

 

If you think Buddhism is of the Devil the you must certainly be right, since "God" talks to you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 7 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]401682[/snapback]</div>

There are those in the conservative Christian camp who believe that God doesn't even hear the prayers or worship of the non-Christians. There was a bit of a bro-ha-ha over it a while back when a prominent fundamentalist said God didn't hear the prayers of Jews. (Obviously not a view I take).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:36 AM) [snapback]402613[/snapback]</div>

You are so full of s**t, your eyes are brown. In one post, you tell us all about how you don't judge, then you judge someone to not have eyesight.


At least, I'll be honest: I am judging you, ALAN, to be a blowhard, who yes, has earned that.

I may be an donkey, but at least I know it. You, on the other hand, you, your s**t don't stink, do it?

 

TJ,

He's probably got quotes for that, too. I have to wonder - does he use an online/computer-based scripture to get the quotes? Or does he keep some copies at his computer? Take heart though... none of us have wasted nearly as much time as windstrings posting all that text.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:36 AM) [snapback]402613[/snapback]</div>

I do not know. If anyone is missing Jesus, it's you, ALAN. Since Jesus would not say anything negative about any other religions. Now, man, who wrote the Bible, man would put those words in His mouth, yes.


Go ahead; quote some meaningless quote from the Bible. Tell me, ALAN, do you have an original hand written transcript of what Jesus would have said? No? Didn't think so.

How can anyone, ANYONE, claim to know exactly what Christ said? I mean, I use the power of reason, and deduction, to figure out that Christ was a man of peace, a man who did not condemn others, and a man who forgave. None of those characteristics fit the man of peace I know.


(Yes, yes, I am still steamed at you. The more I read of your hate and bile, it really gets my dander up)..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 7 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]401625[/snapback]</div>

I thought that was the very ideal of the conservative people...Right To Life. I thought the Pro Choice types were liberal tree hugger who drive Hybrids, like, well, like me.

Since I would never assume what a woman goes through when it comes to childbirth...
I have a friend, a Pastor of a very conservative church, whose wife, had to have an abortion. She was going to die if she gave birth, and that would have left her two older children, and her husband, without a mother/wife.

Tough decision, but what made it worse, was the reaction of his congregation. Half of this church, just left. No compassion, at all.

Funny thing about the Gospels; No where in them, does CHRIST say, 'Hey, don't have an abortion'. No, no...The Almighty, King of Heaven and Earth, Son of The Most High, God, did not seem to find this a issue He needed to speak about. HOWEVER, Divorce? This, this He spoke against.

BOT, sorry about the OT rant...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 7 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]401625[/snapback]</div>

So, who's to say, He won't save them all then? Who is to say against that? Do you know what God, the Almighty, is going to do at the end of the earth?


Before you quote ad nauseum Revelation, save it. I love that book of the Bible, and I have written long papers on it. I have spoken at universities on it.

Bottom line on Revelation? John was Stoned. Out of his mind on some sort of hallucenegic. Not to say that there may be smidgens of truth in that book, but the truth is, no one knows what will happen in the end...since CHRIST, the King of Kings, said that even HE did not know the time of His fathers return.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 10:57 PM) [snapback]402627[/snapback]</div>

Lets play a little game...

If you were the creator of all things and mad man especially for your own pleasure, the delight and apple of your eye.. even put a part of yourself in him and made him in your own image, then developed a plan where while yet fashioned in frailty, he would become one with you and carry your authority and words as a King who marrys a poor pauper woman and elevates her to Queen of his kingdom.
The literal treasure of all that he had made, bonded and one with his heart, of whom he shared his kingdom with, then someone stood in as a substitute and wanted attention as her guide, teacher, friend, and God, would not you be furiouslly jealous over your beloved?

It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to answer that one.. I don't even have to "hear from God".


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 9 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]402671[/snapback]</div>

Well TJ if your unfortunate enough to be around when it all comes down, you will think your stoned out of your mind too! Maybe even have a heart attack!

(Luke 21:25 NKJV) "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
(Luke 21:26 NKJV) "men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
(Luke 21:27 NKJV) "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 11:36 PM) [snapback]402613[/snapback]</div>

ROTFLMAO...wow...what a JUICY rationalization from a man who believes the bible 100% of the time. According to this passage that you have provided, divorce is NOT okay...ever...unless the woman actually had the audacity to sleep around. The man can sleep around, emotionally abuse her, physically abuse her, and she has no rights to a divorce. Of course, women were just property back then, but I guess this kind of thought should be instituted again so that we can live the word of the Bible, which is right all the time, right?

And I LOVE LOVE LOVE this quote..."whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery." So, if a woman makes a mistake and has an affair, her husband should divorce her, but she's relegated to a solitary life because no man can marry her without sin? Are you f-in' kidding me? And you actually believe this? You believe that a woman has no right to divorce a man for any reason? And that the only reason a man can divorce a woman is for adultery? Tread lightly here...if you say you don't believe that then guess what? You're controverting the truth of the bible.

Don't give me the crap about how you'll be forgiven of any sin as long as you ask for it from Jesus. That just shows that you have no interest or belief in the importance of morality.

And for a change, don't give me quotes that you can search for so easily. Don't try to insinuate that you have the whole Bible memorized. Just give me an honest answer from YOU.

BTW--the site www.piouschat.com is still available. You may want to give it a shot.

 

TJ, Windstrings didn't write that post about "condemnation", WattsUp did.

The Lord hears the cries of all His creation.

He even goes so far as to make Himself known to those that do not know Him, especially those that are seeking Him.

If you will look at Rahab the Harlot in the Old Testament, she and her family lived in Jericho, in the city walls.

When two of the Israelite spies came into the city of Jericho, Rahab hid them in her house, within the walls of the city.

She also said that the whole city was terrified because they knew that the God of the Israelites had destroyed many cities and the people within them, giving the cities over to the Israelites.

The king of Jericho heard about her and the spies that were visiting her and when he sent his men to her home, she told the king's men a lie saying that the spies had already left and they went out of the city down by the stream, when in essence she had hidden them in her home.

Rahab made a contract with the two spies, saying that in return for hiding them, she wanted a guarantee that she and her whole family would be protected from harm when the armies of Israel come to attack Jericho.

The men said that they would providing: 1) she and her family were not to talk about the contract of protection for 3 days, 2) that she would place a scarlet cord hanging out of her window so that the Israelite army would know not to harm/kill anyone within that house.

And so the deal was struck. The Israelite army came, and Rahab the harlot and her family were taken from Jericho and put in a safe place outside the camp of the Israelites.

Then the whole city of Jericho was burned with fire.

Now that says something about our GOD saving anyone.

As a matter of fact, Rahab was part of Jesus' lineage. Her actions was accounted unto her as faith.
She was a woman who had to make decisions involving not only her life but those of her mother, father, brothers, sisters, and other relatives.

Smart woman, she made the right decision.

Now is the day of salvation, turn to the Lord while you may be saved.

The bible says that God is a respector of no one person, meaning that what He will do for anyone person He will do for another if they will only believe in Him.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 9 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]402658[/snapback]</div>

If you ask me, me being someone very well versed in Christianity, windstrings would be considered a "false prophet", spreading suffering and negativity towards others - posing as if it is the words of Jesus himself.

Much like Fred Phelps.. David Koresh.. and the other whackos with some twisted "Christian Agenda".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 06:30 AM) [snapback]402726[/snapback]</div>

I"m just the messinger.. don't get mad at me... Love is the center key.... our dating scene is not condusive to stable relationships and only breaks hearts over and over and by the time you get married "if you do", your hardened and the heart is calloused.



These sciptures were written to endorse love.. not lust...



so yes, if you sleep around and make a mistake and want out of it.. its sin.. and yes, the crap "as you say" God can forgive, but you still reap what you sow.... that seed may be a child.



The bible is not set and written as a guidline to put you in bondage, but rather to keep you from it... but many have been raised to do things thier own way not submiitting to any authority.. especially thier parents and so the tare grows.



We all make mistakes and waste years of our lives to learn our lessons... God is gracious to restore the years and heal... if you call that crap, then so be it.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 9 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]402819[/snapback]</div>

Problem is.. if I was false, then you would like me... your value system is all upside down.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]402830[/snapback]</div>

You don't know ANYTHING about my value system! NOTHING. ZILCH. YOU ARE COMPLETELY IGNORANT.

You have NO idea what you're talking about. You're only making yourself look worse. Keep digging that hole, dude.

My "value system" .. Because I'm not a Christian, my "Value system is all upside down".

Seek
Medical
Help

You are false. You have the words of Christ all twisted up in your DOGMA. You sicken most good Christians as you give them a bad name.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]402830[/snapback]</div>

I didn't ask for your opinion on dating or single parenting--just divorce this time. Once again, you didn't answer my question.

Do you believe, as the Bible states in the quote YOU provided, that divorce for any other reason besides the wife cheating on her husband is forbidden, aka sinful? (I won't ask you if you believe that a cheating wife should be automatically divorced and spend her life in a solitary existence--I would guess you DO buy that one...)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 12:44 PM) [snapback]402864[/snapback]</div>

Livelychick, I know that you are posing this question to someone else, but if you would permit me just a line?

I know that God doesn't want any of us to suffer, especially at ANYone else's hands, and yet we do.

I personally don't believe that the Lord would want anyone to beat his/her spouse or do otherwise.

It says that if a Christian is married to an unbeliever and the unbeliever wants to leave, then that should be the case.

But if two Christians are married, that's a different story. Both spouses should be well versed enough to know the edicts of God's commands, BUT that doesn't always mean that Christians will do what they are suppose to do because of the spiritual battle going on inside of either one or both spouses.

That is why, as Windstrings gave the quote about "the hardness of your hearts" when speaking about divorce.

In God's eyes, when two marry and become one, they are in essence more than just one in body but also in spirit. So if someone should split an actual body in two, you can be sure that the person has died.

Likewise, when two people separate or go through a divorce, it does tremendous amount of destruction because it not only affects just the two people but also others that are involved.

So, if reconcillation cannot take place, I know that my pastor has already said, it there is spousal beating it would be better for the victim to leave and find safe shelter/haven. Then God will deal with the person that is doing the beating or whatever.

It's just really sad.

Those people who divorce or separate will reap what has been sown, it's just a principle; just like gravity~what goes up must come down.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]402830[/snapback]</div>

I completely disagree with this. Throughout my life I had selected partners that weren't stable. I was subjected to various forms of abuse. I have a very nurturing personality type and always thought I could help these people. Meanwhile, I ended up with my boundaries violated. It's through all of these experiences that I learned how to treat myself and establish the boundaries that I require be met in order to maintain a healthy relationship with a partner. This evolved over decades but the end product is now in tact and I'm now with a spouse with whom I'm certain I'll spend the rest of my life. Sometimes people glean the most knowledge through life's experiences, both the good and the bad. The roughest and hardest spots in the road are necessary to for one to ascertain the correct junctures in our roads as we go through life. Looking back, I wouldn't forgo one of these difficult experiences as they've built the foundation on which I now rest. You truly do seem to possess tunnel vision and it's quite possible that you should evaluate the giving and openness in your heart as you seem very guarded.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]402864[/snapback]</div>

Livelychick, this is some of the grey area of the scriptures..... Paul spoke about this out of "permission" rather than commandment from God, then when he was all done, he explained he was saying this not to put Gods people in bondage and make things harder than they were supposed to be, but rather help free them up.



Like I said when I answered you the first time.. its centered around promoting affection to God and love towards each other..... acts done out of lust and self are sin.



But we are all sinners till God forgives us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]402916[/snapback]</div>

Acts done out of self can be perceived as selfish and self serving. I tend to believe the opposite based on the theory that the only way in which one can be valuable to another, is by one feeling value of themself. As an example, a parent who doesn't take time to recharge and is constantly stressed isn't going to be a very valuable tool for their child. In the end, caring and doing for oneself can actually be a very selfless act. Why does God consider this a sin?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]402916[/snapback]</div>

So this is what some of the earlier arguments are based on. The Bible is full of grey areas that are open to each individual's interpretation. Thus, the Bible isn't FACT, but some fact surrounded by grey.

That has been several folks' points that you've declared invalid. And now you've supported their points. That's all I wanted to say.

BTW--I disapprove of divorce, too, simply because of the effect it has on a family. That's why I've never gotten married.