Down to the Rapture

TJ

Could you provide some examples of the flaws that you talk about? Maybe someone has an alternate answer that you have not thought about. Speaking for myself I am not really interested in mathematical, date flaws or descriptive scene flaws but some may be, I am more interested in spiritual or doctrinal subjects. The meat not the milk of the Word if you will.

TY Wildkow

 

How do I know what God thinks? He tells me, just like He talks to all of His children.

"My sheep hear My voice, and the voice of another they willl not follow."

That's one of the privileges of being a King's kid.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Feb 4 2007, 08:56 AM) [snapback]385088[/snapback]</div>

Well, I am done with this discussion, since it's clear we two will never see any middle ground, since you know what God thinks.


Have a great life!

 

:blink: :huh: :mellow: :mellow:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 3 2007, 01:29 PM) [snapback]384878[/snapback]</div>

Even as an agnostic, who has read muslim christian and buddhist writings, I'm certain that you realize your views of christianity are (to put it as diplomatic and politely as possible) considered tepid by the majority of christians. What, are you thinking that if there is a God, (s)HE is so puny, that it would be impossible for he/it to create him/itself through a virgin. Wow ... sounds kinda puny. But as you say (loosly paraphrased) ... whatever floats your boat.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Feb 4 2007, 07:46 PM) [snapback]385258[/snapback]</div>

Not impossible. Highly unlikely, though. There are Catholics who believe, (and when I was a younger lad, I read this in the (then) Catholic Bible, which differs ever so slightly from the Protestant one), that not only was Mary a virgin, but so was her mother.

Imagine that.


If Christ was born of a virgin birth, I am thinking, Christ Himself would have made more to do about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 5 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]385435[/snapback]</div>

I'm from a background where God is perfect and makes no mistakes. The Bible is His word to me, and I can both believe it's true and count on it that it happened the way it says or will happen the way it says. God is in charge and big enough that there are no errors that slipped past the goalie. When I see something or hear someone speak, I can check back against Gods truth as found in the Bible and know if what I heard lines up with God.

If our pastor starts talking truth that is opposite what I read in the Bible, then I know that he is in error.

How do the people that come to your church ever know if what they hear is the truth and from God?

You start out by telling them that what they read in the Bible is not necessarily true, so how do they believe any of it. How do you decide which parts to use, which parts to toss out and which parts of the Bible are good, just that they don't really mean what it says?

Then, when someone in your church decides for themself differently than you decided for yourself... Which one of you is right?

On many matters, the disagreement is insignificant. Maybe you believe there were only 7 disciples... Everyone in your congregation believes in a differing amount.. I guess in the plan of salvation, ya'll can get by on that one. But some issues are critical and since you've set the bar at "anything as you feel it should be", I don't see how the people can ever have truth on critical issues.

Which... would make you one of the 'ticklers of ears' type preachers. Say what sounds good and God is not in it.

How many people in your church follow you around on this?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Feb 5 2007, 08:14 AM) [snapback]385463[/snapback]</div>

Which Bible, Daron? Which version? There are so many that it makes a difference.

What about when the Bible contradicts itself? This happens mostly when comparing Old and New Testaments. So which do you go by for "truth"? I suspect the one that fits YOUR nature the most. For instance, "eye for an eye" (Exodus 21:24) is not at all the same as "turn the other cheek" (Matthew 5:39).

I'd really like to know the answer to both of these questions from you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 3 2007, 03:40 AM) [snapback]384805[/snapback]</div>

Genesis 3:4 - "And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. "

There, did you see it? Wait, I made it bold for you!! Adam and Eve had DAUGHTERS. And, NO, it was not considered INCEST at that time, so don't feed me that BS. The whole reason incest was forbidden later was because of the danger of defects from interbreeding. Adam's direct offspring were still very close to perfection, and it wasn't a danger then, and it wasn't considered "taboo".

I really wish you'd stop calling yourself a "preacher" when all you really preach is disrespect for God's Word. Your views are much more typical of those of "higher criticism" than of Christ Jesus, who accepted the writings at his time to be accurate, not "flawed", as he often referred to them and used them as the basis for his arguments. If it was good enough for the son of God its good enough for me.

 

I read out of the KJV..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 5 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]385781[/snapback]</div>

And the other question? About the contradictions? What do all of you "the Bible is all literal and perfect" folks do with the contradictions?

 

GOD is perfect. But the Bible? Is not. Since He did not write it. And if the BIBLE is perfect, then perfect must mean with mistakes.

You Bible belting types don't get it, nor will you ever get it, I'm afraid. GOD? Perfect. Bible? Not. The Bible was written, and edited, by man, who is known to slip up. Just try to get that. How do you accept the fact that the Bible has been edited? How do you ignore what I have already brought up? How do you manage to wrap your brain around the many contradictions in the Bible? How?

No, he is no doubt, a thinker, which means your church won't stand for it, and will drum him out. Can't have thinking, now, can we? Do you even know what a pastor is suppose to do? Or do you just go on what the Bible says?

Do you read? Do you? I have said, that I do not have a church; don't want one. I help out at other churches.

As to how you know the Truth, it should be in you, something you feel, not something you have to be told is the truth.

You use your brain. You figure out what is the Truth by discernment, by research. What makes sense. For instance: It does not make sense that the earth was put here in seven days. It took longer, what with the complicated angel union and all...IF you could read, I have pointed out that I think 30-40% of the Bible is accurate, which is astounding given the human error factor.

The same way conservative Bible belting churches do, I guess. You know, the way conservative Bible Belting churches figure it's okay to hate gay folk, even though Christ never said to hate anyone.

Don't know; don't have a church. However, if one has shown critical thinking ability, and a willingness to think out side the Bible, then we can have a meaningful dialogue. Otherwise, similar to this discussion, it tends to be one view against another.

What I am is the preacher your mother warned you about. The one that won't try to snow you with false promises, and tell you to blindly follow something because some man behind a pulpit says 'the Bible says so'.

Don't have a church. But, did you know, that Pastors are named after Shepard's? And that good shepherds don't walk in front of their flock? They walk behind their flock. So they can gather the strays.

Hey, look. I've said this before, I'll say it again. You can believe what you want. I just happen to think that the Truth is not confined to some man written tome.

The Truth is Free. Just ask for it.

GREAT question. Thanks for asking it. Hope I have answered some of that.

I call myself a Preacher, because I am an ordained Pastor. Deal with that. Not all pastors wear robes and speak in Latin or whatever.

Some of us have tattoos. Earrings. Wear shorts.

Talk in bars. Hell, I even helped open a church in a former strip club.


I don't show disrespect for God's word at all. What I show disrespect for, is MAN and what he wrote down.

MAN screwed the Bible up. Tell you what. If you accept that God wrote the Bible then what do you say to the Mormons, who also believe God came to North America? That He wrote another Testament? The Book of Mormon?

Now, which is right. The Mormons? Or the Christians? Which got the Word of God right?

Yeah, you wrestle with that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 5 2007, 09:15 AM) [snapback]385487[/snapback]</div>

I love it, Exodus 21:24, it by its self can be misconstruded as its taken from its context. You need to read Chapter 22 in full from verse 1- 36.

Mathew 5:38, 39, 40
Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (39) But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whsoever shal smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (40) And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

I will have to agree with TJ on the fact that the bible has been rewritten many times and copied many times and had the words changed many times so it is plousible to have been corrupted in the fact of things being left out or changed to suit other religions... TJ stated something had been left out from the original bible!?. I cant find the word now he refered to a part or section I can remember the name (dammit).. Thats It! The Apocrypha, below are some of the removed literature look at the link.


1 Esdras
2 Esdras
Additions to Esther
1 Macabees
2 Macabees
Tobias
Judith
Wisdom
Sirach
Baruch
Epistle of Jeremiah
Susanna
Prayer of Azariah
Prayer of Manasseh
Bel and the Dragon
Laodiceans
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/index.htm

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm

Oops sorry my name isn't Daronpncher...... I'll let him respond.. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 5 2007, 10:23 PM) [snapback]385803[/snapback]</div>

Oh oh...A KJV person. Need not go any further.


(Just yanking your chain...if you like the KJV, so be it...)

 

What about some parts of the bible have been documented to have been added or modified centuries after JCs time.

The entire resurrection story, for example, was not in the bible until the 13th century. The bible used to end with the women finding an open tomb. An ending in my opinion that was more dramatic.

The story of the adulteress also doesn’t appear in the earliest manuscripts of the Gospel of John. It was apparently a well-known story, and it may have appeared as a marginal note on someone’s copy, and so it was later transcribed as part of the Gospel, as scribes believed it belonged there. But some put it in chapter 7, where it resides now, while others put it in chapter 21. One scribe even inserted it as part of the Gospel of Luke – where it’s entirely out of place because this sort of story simply doesn’t fit there. Yet from about the fourth century on, the story is part and parcel of the Gospel of John, and of the mysterious being that is Jesus.

And these are only examples that have been uncovered. I would not be surprised if the bible is even more of a composite slowly put together over the centuries.

 

I added some to my above statement.

And sent these links to my Pastor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Feb 4 2007, 05:52 AM) [snapback]385083[/snapback]</div>

Wildkow~

I think they either ignored or side stepped your question.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Feb 2 2007, 06:06 AM) [snapback]384332[/snapback]</div>

Ala must had been watching TV when that one hit the ground!
Maybe he can't do 3 things at once?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 5 2007, 06:15 AM) [snapback]385487[/snapback]</div>

The surface reading of "An eye for an eye" in the Bible at first glance sounds awfully brutish. But with the rest of the Bible and the help of the Holy Spirit we interpret it as follows. Humans are vengeful people so if someone wrongs you the price you get to extract is supposed to be on equal to the original wrong. If your neighbor steals a chicken the price he must pay for that is a chicken not a cow. So the saying “eye for an eye†means no cruel and unusual punishment over and beyond the original harm.

Wildkow

p.s. I suspect the next question will be about some of the punishments allowed for certain crimes/infractions of the law. Just remember different times, different people and different culture.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jtmhog @ Feb 2 2007, 08:50 AM) [snapback]384371[/snapback]</div>

It is sad, but the only countries that are "free" to love thier brother are the ones who have paid in blood.

All others pay cash!