Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 18 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]408123[/snapback]</div>

I agree.... there is only one reality.. but when we are searching for the real reality... I think there is something deep within us that really "knows" when we found it.. until then, choices seem very needed and healthy.

But once we find true reality, other choices seem foolish.

The only thing I can compare it too is dating... until you find the "one" that you know is your lifelong mate.. it seems quite healthy not to settle for just anyone, but to keep an open mind and keep looking.
But once you find that majic mate that you know is the right one for you... then looking for others seems foolish.

Once you find the Lord, he is so awesome and overwhelmingly glorious and superior to any of the other substitutes, it seems ludicruse to consider any other.

Once we find God, he expects us to stop looking.
But having an open mind to other ideas are always good if you are searching.... even God himself was not so closed minded that the ruled out the possiblity of another God.. the looked around and said.

(Isa 44:8 NKJV) Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.'"
(Isa 44:9 NKJV) Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed.
(Isa 44:10 NKJV) Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing?


(Isa 44:8 KJV) Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
(Isa 44:9 KJV) They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
(Isa 44:10 KJV) Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 18 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]408157[/snapback]</div>

What you and I call 'real' is VERY different. I'm certain we don't agree at all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 18 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]407891[/snapback]</div>

Um..well, the chain of events was thus: He called the hot line. When it became clear he meant harm to himself, as in, right then and there, I offered to meet him (we had already established he was local). On the way there, I contacted the police, as is my responsibility.

When he and I were talking, suddenly raised his firearm and shot at me. I think it was more or less meant to be more of a threat, then a shot to connect. (On a side note, I think the police should check out a person better for firearms then they did this time...but it's just a mistake...)

I put my life on the line, because Christ would have. And I try my best to do as Christ would have done. It's something I would do again. It's just the way I am wired. I believe 100% when you say you follow Christ, you are suppose to do as He did, as much as you can, at least.

I still can't walk on water, dang it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 19 2007, 12:53 AM) [snapback]408254[/snapback]</div>

I think what I'm trying to say.. is that there is only "one" reality..... its just that people see it so many different ways.

Its impossible to have two or more realities unless they all include each other as part of thier own, but even then, its just opinion rather than reality... see what I mean?

If I think the sun is a ball of fire and someone else thinks its a big light bulb, it doesn't negate what it really is?

If God made the earth and the universe and says there are no other God, yet mankind invents all kinds of Gods out of wood, stone, or even ideas "like The force" that they choose to believe instead.. does that make the real God of no effect?... and if the real God is in effect, then aren't all the other so called gods subject to his judgement for imitating God and lying to mankind?

(Isa 45:21 NKJV) Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.
(Isa 45:22 NKJV) "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
(Isa 45:23 NKJV) I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.


(Rom 3:3 NKJV) For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
(Rom 3:4 NKJV) Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged."

All those who claim another reality that says God is not real.... "better" be right!
And why would a person not seek the only real and true loving God?

People who think you can bounce in and out of realities don't understand what I mean.

Reality is not whats in your head.. its whats outside of your head.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 19 2007, 03:23 AM) [snapback]408272[/snapback]</div>

When you meet up with the Lord, ask Him, and I am sure He will let you walk on water just like Pete. ^_^

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 19 2007, 02:23 AM) [snapback]408272[/snapback]</div>

You know, Jesus limited himself to what the Father was calling him to do, .. I bet we could walk on water if either the Father wanted to show a point or we had the faith he did....
funny how even Jesus prayed every day "and he was the son of God!"..... It a necessary chore to stay in that spiritual realm and keep this flesh stamped down that doesn't want to believe in anything.

Jesus said that we would do works even greater.... I think if the need arose, we too could walk on water.... why not..... I know I"ve seen more impressive things than that take place in the way of healings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 19 2007, 10:52 AM) [snapback]408360[/snapback]</div>

Agreed!

 

Does believing in something make it true?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 19 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]408466[/snapback]</div>

Hi Silver! The way the word "believe" means it to put your trust/hope in what someone says.

If someone were to tell you: "Silver, I am going to get you a present for your birthday."

What would you think?

The person hasn't gotten you the gift yet, but do you "believe" that he will get a present because he said so?

Or do you "believe" that he won't?

The word "believe" also means trusting for something that is "not yet seen" or "not yet materialized" but just because "you don't see it" or "it hasn't materialized yet" doesn't mean that it won't happen. It is just a matter of when it will happen.

So this is why sometimes Christians are called "believers" because we are still waiting for the promises of God to be fulfilled; and there are plenty of them.

But just as there are many promises that God is fulfilling, He has fulfilled many of them: these are called prophecies.

In this case it is a promise from God.

A promise that one day we will be residing with the Messiah and the Lord God Almighty in a mansion specifically prepared for us; in the new heaven and the new earth.

That's why the bible also says, that the things that we SEE WITH OUR PHYSICAL EYES WILL PASS AWAY, but those things WHICH ARE NOT SEEN ARE ETERNAL and will never pass away.

Another example, if I speak to you, you don't see my words do you? No.

So does that mean that I didn't speak to you? No.

Quite the contrary, I did speak to you.

Same way with God.

"I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep (His promise), that which I have committed (my request), unto Him against that day. (the day that the request comes to pass.)

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words will never pass away."

So, to answer you question, yes, believing in something is true, more so especially if it comes from God.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 19 2007, 12:40 PM) [snapback]408466[/snapback]</div>

Actually a thought provoking question..... Another way to look at this answer that we all can understand is "credit".

A bank loans money based on your track record "trustworthyness" and ability "means" to pay back.

They give you 150000 on a promise you will return it with interest based on how good your "word" is.

They believe in you or they don't.

I believe in God because he has never lied and never let me down... I won't kid you, my faith has be sorely tried at times and it "looked" like God may not come through.. but he loves to come through not a minute early and not a minute late.... but he always comes through right on time.

God doesn't ask us to believe in nothing... he has a track record recorded through history thats unprecedented.... From the flood of noah to the opening of the red sea with chariots on the bottom of the sea to todays promises being fullfilled that were made back in days of old.
We take Gods word and tests them and our faith is tried... he says "try" me.

Based on all the things we "know" about God, it gives us faith to accept the things we don't "know" about him.

(Mal 3:10 NKJV) Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the LORD of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.
(Mal 3:11 NKJV) "And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field," Says the LORD of hosts;
(Mal 3:12 NKJV) "And all nations will call you blessed, For you will be a delightful land," Says the LORD of hosts.
(Mal 3:13 NKJV) "Your words have been harsh against Me," Says the LORD, "Yet you say, 'What have we spoken against You?'
(Mal 3:14 NKJV) You have said, 'It is useless to serve God; What profit is it that we have kept His ordinance, And that we have walked as mourners Before the LORD of hosts?
(Mal 3:15 NKJV) So now we call the proud blessed, For those who do wickedness are raised up; They even tempt God and go free.'"
(Mal 3:16 NKJV) Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the LORD And who meditate on His name.
(Mal 3:17 NKJV) "They shall be Mine," says the LORD of hosts, "On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them As a man spares his own son who serves him."

---------------
This little passage shows God challenging us to test him and at the same time acknowledges the present frustrations of serving God and those who don't see the profit along with another promise of the future, as well as we can see how this promise that was written long ago to Israel is still being marched out and kept.

But our faith is built the most in testing his words in our day to day walk and learning how to hear his instruction and following that voice and watching it pay off and be confirmed.

 

I like your COLORS!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 18 2007, 08:04 AM) [snapback]407865[/snapback]</div>

OK, I get it. There are verses that convey that information much better than the temple dedication you cited. Romans 1 and 2 deal with the concept of the unsaved and those who have never heard the gospel (they are only responsible for what they hear, and are otherwise judged on the law ... Christians mistake this to mean that our modern interpetation of the law, as Paul makes clear later, which is to say it is of no good effect for US who have heard the Gospel.) There's a giant "loophole" in there for those that never hear the Gospel; I believe Paul is saying that they are judged as the Jewish theologians would have said they are judged, which is by the example of their lives, and not with the standard of all their works being "worthless rags".) But I digress.

The problem you still have is that you have a "good work" ... your telling of the Gospel ... that is responsible for people getting saved, and you believe that there's a "responsibility" we hold if we don't do it correctly ... that we will somehow be held accountable. But that puts YOU in the driver's seat, and your failure is consigning people to hell. It would be like the apartment dweller who runs out of the building but never yells "fire!" being scolded, and all the people who smell the smoke but didn't hear a "get out" yell being forced back into the building to burn to death by the firemen.

I just don't see how that's a tenable position. Hell is too severe a punishment for a technicality being responsible to send people there.

 

Taken from a sermon:

One night in a church service a young woman felt the
tug of God at her heart.

She responded to God's call and accepted Jesus as her
Lord and Savior.

The young woman had a very rough past, involving
alcohol, drugs, and prostitution.

But, the change in her was evident. As time went on
she became a faithful member of the church.

She eventually became involved in the ministry,
teaching young children.

It was not very long until this faithful young woman
had caught the eye and heart of the pastor's son.

The relationship grew and they began to make wedding
plans.

This is when the problems began.

You see, about one half of the church did not think
that a woman with a past such as hers was suitable for a pastor's
son.

The church began to argue and fight about the matter.

So they decided to have a meeting.

As the people made their arguments and tensions
increased, the meeting was getting completely out of hand.

The young woman became very upset about all the things
being brought up about her past.

As she began to cry the pastor's son stood to speak.

He could not bear the pain it was causing his wife to
be.

He began to sp eak and his statement was this:

"My fiancee's past is not what is on trial here.

What you are questioning is the ability of the blood
of Jesus to wash away sin.

So, does it wash away sin or not?"

The whole church began to weep as they realized that
they had been slandering the blood of the Lord Jesus
Christ.

Too often, even as Christians, we bring up the past
and use it as a weapon against our brothers and
sisters.

Forgiveness is a very foundational part of the Gospel
of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If the blood of Jesus does not cleanse the other
person completely then it cannot cleanse us completely.

! If that is the case, then we are all in a lot of
trouble.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Mar 18 2007, 12:32 PM) [snapback]407899[/snapback]</div>

I never tried to give a ruling or judgement on 999,999,999 of your labels. I am speaking of the one I know. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died for my sins, rose again in 3 days and ascended in to heaven and will come back for me one day. I'm 'all in' on that bet and the other 999,999,999 labels of your 1 billion are "the other choice". You can sift that pile all you want, but from where I stand, it's "the other choice".

I don't consider this to be a gamble, so I can't even say I'm betting on it, but until I see the payout, that's probably the closest analogy to apply so you can understand.

You can put down 20% on Buddism, 35% on there being no God, 45% on allah and see how it turns out for you. If I'm right, then you're still 100% in hell for eternity. Being that my position is 100% on my label, you could divy up amonst the other 999,999,999 labels all you want and I'll be right here to urge you to reconsider your pick.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 19 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]408755[/snapback]</div>

Ha!.. thanks.....sometimes I try and color code meanings together so they are a little easier to track.

But thanks for noticeing... my grammar is hopeless.. maybe that will be a little payback!....

I remember a preacher making fun of the way paul talked how he goes on forever with one sentence..... I just figured that came with the package of being long winded!... :lol:

No but, sometimes the flow of thought coming never stops and you have to "on purpose" shut it down are restart it for the sake of grammar,
Having complete thoughts that start and end are a little easier.... mine tend to all blend together as one.

A little color may help a little when throwing in scripture too.. many people have difficulty with scripture if they are not used to it.

Just like I have a hard time hearing movies with accents in the verbage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Mar 20 2007, 02:10 AM) [snapback]408816[/snapback]</div>

Even if there were no people telling about The Good News, the bible says all of Creation testifies to His Handiwork, meaning that they would know without a doubt about the God who existed and created it all.

So, the Lord says that they will be without excuse. Even if there is only one man on the face of the earth, all by himself, he would still know that there is a God.

The reason being that most people don't want to acknowledge God is that they don't want to give up their lifestyle.

So I just don't buy what some people say when they say they are agnostics or atheists.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Mar 20 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]408846[/snapback]</div>

Agreed! Most whole heartedly!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Mar 20 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]408816[/snapback]</div>

I agree there are better scriptures, but this one hit many points at once to try and bring a better general understanding....

I agree with you, but maybe I don't see it as blackand white as you are putting it.

We are accountable for what God ask us to do. If we fail, he is merciful to forgive and to even rearrange creation so that another window of opportunity becomes available for us to try and learn again as He trains us to hear his voice.

I think God has common sense and he is fair too.
If I don't know the english language well, or my grammar is off, God seems to take over in the areas I am weak and make up for the difference.

Remember... Its not my might, nor by power.. but by my spirit saith the Lord?

He has proven that to me time and time again.
I've seen a little child filled with the Holy Ghost accomplish more in 5 minutes that a 3 day seminar of polished seminary preachers.

God Does not hole the hearer "accountable" for someone else disobeying to give a message.. BUUUTTTT
We have to not keep getting salvation mixed up with reaping and sowing and cause and effect.
Salvation has to do with position and relationship in the family of God, the other has to do with whether you are profitable. Just like a profitable son verses a prodical.

Remember the prodical would not have gotten off without a hitch if he had never came back to this fathers house.. he had spent his inheritance.. meaning he had none left even though he was still a son.

If a tornado is heading straight for your house and someone is disobedient to tell you and rather only worries about themself and runs for the hills and you are destroyed...you would not be held "accoutable" for not hearing, but you still may die and your house destroyed!

Unfortunately is not that simple either.. because if the hearer is lost in thier sins without a covering and an atonement, then they would be dead in the afterlife too.

There is a part of this picture that I don't think we can know, because its in the hands of God.

But yes, I believe we are accountable for our works and actions..... our rewards will depend on them as well as others benifiting from our labours.

If you grow a tree and never cultivate it so that it produces fruit... that tree is no good for life and food for anyone else... its considered an evil tree to be cut down and destroyed.

God holds us accoutable for the talents He gives us.. if he is asking us to use them and we sit on them and they never grow and do anybody any good, he will not be pleased and we will not be considered "profitable".

(Mat 25:14 NKJV) "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
(Mat 25:15 NKJV) "And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey.
(Mat 25:16 NKJV) "Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents.
(Mat 25:17 NKJV) "And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.
(Mat 25:18 NKJV) "But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money.
(Mat 25:19 NKJV) "After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
(Mat 25:20 NKJV) "So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.'
(Mat 25:21 NKJV) "His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'
(Mat 25:22 NKJV) "He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.'
(Mat 25:23 NKJV) "His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'
(Mat 25:24 NKJV) "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
(Mat 25:25 NKJV) 'And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.'
(Mat 25:26 NKJV) "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.
(Mat 25:27 NKJV) 'So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest.
(Mat 25:28 NKJV) 'Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
(Mat 25:29 NKJV) 'For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.
(Mat 25:30 NKJV) 'And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

That wicked servant was cast out as he didn't use his gift for good or profit.... the people that missed out due to his disobedience were not "accoutable" for his laziness, but I'm sure God made other provision for them... but we can't know that either.

It only seems fair that if God opened a window of opprotunity for salvation to someone, that if that door were closed by man, God would circumvent somehow.
But contrary to popular belief... things aren't always fair either.

God gives one person one talent and the other ten.... but in the end, God holds each to a different accoutability. So in the end, He is being fair as he hold one more accoutable than the other.. but in our sense of right and wrong, fair and unjust.. we don't see that balance occur until judgement... so how can we judge God on his sovereignty?

Thats why I can never judge someone who seems like a spirtual bumm..... IN Gods eyes, he has given me so much, he may think I'm a bum too for not having done more with what I have?

 

You guys quote the bible so much I would like to offer some perspective. The bible that you read has had passages deleted, added, modified and simply forged in through the ages. In a nutshell, the history of the new testament is like this:

Jesus may or may not have been a historical figure. Certainly lots of rabbis were crucified.

Paul has a seizure and writes his gospel and letters, basically inventing christianism.

THEN the rest of the books of the new testament are written, along with many others.

Thousands of copies are made through the centuries introducing errors or modifying the text when it didn't suit the particular doctrine of the scribe (docetic, proto-orthodox..etc.)

The church fathers in the 4th century decide what gospels will be in the new testament, after much killing and animosity.

Things are still introduced down to the 13th century.

These are a few things our earliest manuscripts do not contain:

The concept of Jesus as God.
The concept of the trinity.
The story of the almost stoned adulteress
The story of the resurrection.
And many, many others.

Doesn't this questions the validity of indiscriminately quoting the bible? I suppose not, in your case...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Mar 20 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]408920[/snapback]</div>

This has been asked and answered, ad nauseum, in this post and others. I think their take on it is that God guided the hand of everyone who made the changes to the Bible, therefore, it is still the word of God. Something like that. Hey--it makes sense to them!

TJ got lambasted for pointing out what you did, and more. It was not well-received, so I would advise you to...
DUCK!!!! Here comes more scripture! B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Mar 20 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]408920[/snapback]</div>

Name one other book that has been around as long as the bible. You can't.

So, if the bible were "just a book written by men", and not inspired by the Holy Spirit, it would have died out long ago.

Even history has it as a person saying about the Christians back in the time of Christ, if their "movement" is not of God, it will disperse; if it is of God, better leave it alone unless you find yourself fighting God.

Wise words from a very smart man.