Down to the Rapture

I aksed my preacher about The Apocrypha, He said they where removed from the original bible as they had no real religious meanings they just filled space if you will. They where removed during the pre-catholic bible printing. He said other stuff but this is what I wrote down.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Feb 6 2007, 01:29 PM) [snapback]386159[/snapback]</div>

In the words I used to use in middle school, "Well, du--uuu--hhh."

I don't need an explanation of a quote or even a sociological reference, Kow. I was ASKING how one part of the bible says "eye for an eye," but when Jesus speaks, he says "turn the other cheek." It's the contradiction that I want an answer about. How can you believe in every word a book says when it contradicts itself? What do you CHOOSE to believe? How do you reconcile the contradictions?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 6 2007, 09:19 PM) [snapback]386497[/snapback]</div>

So, have you read the Apocrypha? Or are you okay with other men making the decision for you about what is part of the bible and what isn't?

A Christian could say, with much integrity and honesty, that the entire Old Testament had "no religious meanings...just filled space if you will" to the Christian faith as much of it tends to contradict the New Testament.

Seriously--I don't think it'd be a very Christian thing to decide to have kids with your handmaiden because your wife couldn't conceive, as a small example.

 

the old testament shows the character of God.... it reveals the different sides of the Father.
One side is gentle like a lamb and another takes vengence like a lion...
One side says to have mercy, another says to kill every last one of them, women, children and beast and leave not one standing.

This age has only seem the mercy and the salvation of the Lord, but that will not prevail forever.

Jesus came not to condemn, but there will be a day of judgement.
Jesus said to turn the other check, but that same Jesus chased out the money changers out of the temple with a whip and an anger.....

People who try to analyse God with intellect and law alone will always miss it... you have to understand God with spirit and heart....... this if far too deep for the intellect alone.

We too have many sides as we are made in his image.... even while sin is imputed to us which kills our spritual abilities to peer into the heavenly realm, we can still see the parallels.

It is impossible to explain spiritual matters to a mind that cannot see into that realm.
The best that can be hoped for is to speak in parables and show the similiarities.

Our society is so perverted with liberal thinking that doesn't not respect boundaries that Fathers have no commitment, and mothers leave their young and brothers and sisters turn on each other.
In a world like that, its tough for the "unilluminated mind" to even grapple with let alone comprehend a heavenly Father with brothers and sisters in a loving family.... its a mockery!... it makes no sense at all!

There is alot of "fear" associated with accepting something that cannot be measured with the senses and instruments. So many things have tricked and so much conterfeit has stolen the real, that nothing is to be trusted anymore.

Only God can call an hungry heart and open thier eyes to see..... until that happens its a waste of time.

And the the person that is blind, they will always be blind if they love thier blindness.. they must be so miserable being blind that they cry for the light.

yes that sounds cruel that you have to ask for a free gift.... darn.

 

Windstrings you are right. The bible says that one must be born again in order to discern the things which spiritual that the heavenly Father wants to show us.

When Jesus was baptized, the heavens opened up and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove descended upon Him; and the Father said, "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased."

The baptism which Jesus underwent, and the opening of the heavens shows the believer many things.
When the heavens parted, this was an indication that it was now possible for man to be able to discern spiritual matters with the help of the Holy Spirit. It is very similar to the renting of the veil of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified.

One of the reasons for the bible is that was given to man, and written by men who were led by the Holy Spirit, is so that we can learn more about not only His ways but what our heavenly Father thinks.

Otherwise, how we will know what is pleasing and what is not pleasing to the Father?

It is interesting to note that Abraham did not leave his homeland to follow after God until he was 75-years old. God called Abraham His friend.

Jesus calls us friend when we have been born again. He says, that He would take what is of the Father's and make it known to us.

So since, I am born again, Jesus calls me His friend, and if I am His friend, then He will reveal to me what is from the Father. Jesus says, My sheep hear my voice, and the voice of a stranger they will not follow.

So, yes, I can hear His voice. But then you say, well, how do you know He is speaking to you? Is it audible? No, but it can be. Is it in my head? Yes, I hear it in my head and my heart. So how do you know it is Him? Simple, I read His word, the bible. The Word is the plumb line so that I think along the same way that My heavenly Father does.

(Jesus was crucified because He told the priests He is the Son of God.)

Now do you think I would go out and deliberately do something evil? No, because, the word of God tells us that our God is a God of love, not hate. But He is also a God of justice too. It is not my job to judge a person's heart but I can judge a person's spirit by their actions and their words or their fruit. Jesus says that you shall know a person by his fruit. Fruit of the Holy Spirit. See I Corinthians Chapter 13.

When a person is born again, we have the very nature or seed of God planted inside of us. As we water the seed, with God's word, we grow spiritually. Now God created the Chrisitan for good works. That means we are to do good for all people, just as He does good for all people. Christians are called to live the way God expects of them. The Word says, "and they will know that we are Christians by our love" for one another. That is why God says to turn the other cheek. No one ever lost out by being good to someone else.

We were created by God to do and perform good works for others; and in that way we will be acting just like our Heavenly Father. This is one way of how, "it is the goodness of God which leads men to turn to Him" because we will be reflecting His character.

The Word also says, that an offended brother is harder to win than breaking into a walled city.

God does not hate the sinner but He hates the sin. Why? Because it robs, kills, and destroys those who are made in His image: people. So likewise, we should be the same. I mean, if you had a couple of kids, would you want your kids to be nasty, killers, whatever? No. Why? Because it is a REFLECTION upon YOUR CHARACTER. Well, God feels the same way. At one point in the bible, He regrettd ever having made man and was ready to wipe them off the face of the earth, if someone had not of stood in the gap and pleaded with the Lord not to do so, because then His character would be ruined.

We are to be a reflection of His character. But we are human and none of us, and I mean none of US, are perfect. We will make mistakes, we will sin when we are weak in the flesh, just as Peter did. We have an advocate Who sits at the right hand of God, His name is Jesus. When we confess our sin, which only means that we agree with the Lord that we have failed to meet His expectations, that He remembers our sin no more, and that our sin is as far as the east is from the west. It doesn't mean that we can go out and sin more, because that is not what it means.

The bible tells us to be renewed in our mind by the Word; and not to be conformed to the way the world thinks and acts; and that we are to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. So if a thought comes to mind, and it's not a good thought according to the Word, well, then it doesn't have to nest in one's head so to speak. It can be dismissed.

God's word is living, and sharper than any two-edged sword. Separating within a man, his very thoughts so that they are laid bare before the Lord.

 

The term "born again" has become a joke and a byword by hollywood.
Its like trying to read the mind of another creature.

Man is not evil.. he is good as God said so after he finished making him.

But he is an excellent "carrier" of evil.... a vessel if you will.
Because anything that touches evil is also evil by association, so man is now evil.

By the same token being "born again" is starting all over with a new breath of life.. except this time he is not born in sin, but of life. Being born of life restores what was lost in the garden.. the ability to commune with God and hear again.

But none of this "talk" makes sense to those who have never been there.
They are viewing from another plane of existence and reality.

No entity can relate or understand the nature of another entity without a common spirit.

Have you ever wondered why you can't understand a pediphile or other perverted natures?... its impossible unless you open to that spirit.

But those who are consumed with spirits think its thier own nature and thier own thoughts and don't realise they are possessed with the thoughts and natures of a disobedient spirit.

when your listeners are under the guise and "bewitchment" of such spirits you cannot preach to them and you only appear as a religious wacko. They are blind....
Jesus never accused the world of being stupid.... only blind.....

Its so important to pick your battles in the spirit..... only the battles that have already been won are the ones you are to reap......

We have learned and grown in so much technology, yet man still cannot know himself, yet he think he can grapple with God.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 7 2007, 09:56 PM) [snapback]386787[/snapback]</div>

No truer statement can be made about ones faith and how others perceive it.
Thank you,
Windstrings & Loveit!

 

So true, Windstrings!

That's one of the reasons why the Lord said we shall have no other gods before us. Reason is, there is only one God, and that's Him. So we really need to be careful about whom we worship.

I know someone who told me a while back that they were having problems in their life. I asked if they were a Christian and the reply was affirmative. Then I asked if I could pray with them, and the answer was affirmative again. When I was finished praying for them, I said you know that you can go to the Lord at any time ask Him for the help that you need.

Then they said that they go to a fortune teller every 4 to 6 weeks like they do when they were having their hair done. I told this person, you know that the bible specifically says that you are not to seek out fortunie tellers, and other such things?

Then the light bulb went off in this person's head and said, "So that's why I am having the trouble that I am!" Duh!!!!!!!!!!

When you worship God, you are inviting His presence to come into and be a very active part of your life everyday, and He does so in a mighty wonderful way.

But just think what will happen if you worship an idol. You know that there is a demon behind it, and you have no idea or clue what problems you will have then.

So friends, be very careful about who you worship.

 

Friend implies a mutual exchange of warm feelings... be careful who you call friends!

It is truely a Gift of God.... it's Heaven's "common sense" to be able to discern and know good from evil.

I used to think that people just "chose" evil, but now I am starting to realize more and more its much deeper.. so many just literally don't get it... thier mind is totally alienated from the wisdom of God.... litereally blinded.
Good is bad and bad is good... they are totally decieved and controlled and perverted from the original.

God spoke is such a way so that only those who hungered after truth could hear while the "wise men of the day" heard nothing.

We are a generataion calling perversion normal..... even when it can't procreate on its own, yet its supposed to be from God.....
Freaks of nature that propogate... generations of cursings that procreate upon themselves to the point that the norm is perversion.

Even a non-believer can see God if his mind is not poisoned.....

I hate to start throwing scripture around because everybody just shuts down... but the thing I fear the most is a "reprobate mind".

I'll have mercy and not post the next 7 scriptures "under" this one.

(Rom 1:28 KJV) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;29 Being filled with all...............................
...................

Anyone truly afraid of this happening to them, most likely is safe for now,..... those who mock at it, quite possibly qualify.

Thank God its not my job to figure it out........

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 6 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]386507[/snapback]</div>

OK, well good for you a lot of people think it's literal. Now to your understanding of the passage, which as you have stated you feel it is a contradiction. I don't see it that way and it seems quite clear to me that Jesus is attempting to change the way Christians should respond to injury from another. In line with His own character of love and forgiveness and the concept of being without sin and casting the first stone, etc. . .

Please reread the passage again. . .

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

It was OK to seek justice in Old Testament times, as it was during Jesus time and still is today, who can argue with that? Nowher does Jesus say not to seek justice, or that he is commanding us not too seek recompense for injury, he just said there is a another, and in many cases if not all, a better way. If this does not convince the other party to change or remedy the injury, then he/she heaps the coals of condemnation, (justice) upon his own head. So rather than this being a contradiction it is just Jesus saying try this instead. Kapesh?

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Feb 8 2007, 04:26 AM) [snapback]386875[/snapback]</div>

Excellentee!

He was trying to imply letting your live be led by the law of love that superceeds all other laws and in so, also fullfills them into a much deeper level.
It was no longer about whether you picked up a stick on the sabbath or did work, that was a type and shadow of the spirit life that was to follow where your heart is always fixed upon him as he clouds and overshadows everything you do..... now.. "everyday is the sabbath"!!!

He was trying to show the way through him as he said "I am the way" which cooresponds to a doorway or opening into another dimension of power.
All things happen to all alike, however the power of Love changes reality and actually changes the way physical existence relates with us.
When evil is being imparted..... when led by the wisdom of the spirit, love will be a simple "no brainer" guide as to which is the correct response. A good reply out of love can melt the cold heart thats enraged with hate and anger.

Out of "love" he often returned mercy for hate and good for evil, but sometimes mercy and love comes in the form of violent actions or correction and direction as when he cleared the temple.
It would not have been love to continue to allow them to make sacrilage of the very temple that was thier portal to a better way.

Sometimes what we interpret as "love" is really selfishness, so to lessen "our" pain and stuggle, we "enable" and make the destructive path even easier for the one we are attempting to love.

The heart is desperately wicked and who can know it?

Trying to be a christian out of intellect, bible study, and reading the right books is missing it completely just as the Pharasees missed it as they appeared as beautiful statues that were really dead mens bones.

It "must" be out of a spirit led life of love or its a total loss in the full sense of the word.

When we get to heaven... "no One" will be able to recieve glory by saying they did anything of thier own goodness and choice......

The only "choice" that will be rewarded is that they chose to die, so the spirit man can live and redirect their lives and be of another heart and mind through regeneration of the spirit.

This can get so deep and complicated, but its so simple that even a 2 year old and walk in it.....

Thats one thing that set Christianity apart from other religions...... its not dependent upon the intellect of the individual and disciplines to be able to reach "nirvana", its only dependent upon trust, faith and love... but not of our own.

Those who live in fear and cannot give up thier understanding cannot love either.. because love operates by faith.
Another reason our marriages are so wounded.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 8 2007, 09:04 AM) [snapback]386891[/snapback]</div>

Wow.

We choose to die? We do?

You know something? Those who are like the Pharisees...well, back then, those would be the ones who read the scripture every day, yet missed it when Christ showed up.

Sort of like today's 'Christians' that miss it when they bury their head in a book that contradicts itself, and leads so many people to hate, and fear, and loathe other people that don't believe in that book...The Bible is such a 'perfect' book, so some would think, then why does perfection lead so many to hate others? How many Bible Believers are out there, putting down others, because they don't agree with them? How many people have been killed by Christians that thought they were right? Hitler thought he was a Christian, of sorts. He thought that God had him on that path, to kill the Jews.

What about the inquisition? I mean, there were some convinced that they were reading the Bible right people, who thought they were doing God's work, all based on what they read in the Bible...
<_<
You know, to those who don't believe, watching 'Christians' argue is amusing for them; watching them put down each other, disagreeing, just reinforces their view that none of us have it right.

I agree with the great Billy Graham, who said in a interview, that 'who am I to know the mind of God? I do not know who will be in heaven'.

I don't know what is 100% Correct. I just know what I know is True to me, and what is True to me, is not always going to be True to you.

 

Wildkow, I found out that the "heaping of coals upon one's head" is really a blessing for that person. It refers to back in those days where fire was very important. If one's fire went out, then they generally had to seek out someone else and ask for a piece of burning coal. When they received this piece of coal, it went into some kind of non-flamable container, which was carried upon the head of the person receiving the coal, and then carried back to home or where ever the coal was needed for warmth, light, and for cooking. It was considered a most precious commodity back then. More than likely they would not be able to survive without it. It was life-giving. So in that respect, the Lord calls us to bless others no matter who they might be, enemies or otherwise.

Likewise, we are called to be servants of the Most High God. We are to be examples. If Christ washed the feet of His disciples and told them to wash each other's feet, we cannot do any less. That's why we are to turn the other cheek. Like you said Windstrings, that is the only way some people will "see".

Yes, the Lord does & will administer justice to each person. It is His job to judge a person's accountability for his/her life. Like Windstrings says, thank God we don't have to do that!

Yes, one's life is called to be lived by faith in the Son of God, and led by the Spirit, a life lived in love towards others.

The Lord admonishes us to live a life that will bless others. He says, "What is true religion? It is to provide for the widow, the orphan, to love mercy, and to walk humbly before your God."

I don't know everything, I'll be the first to admit it. I am not perfect, I will admit to that too. I have been full of pride in my life and I admit that too. But when I gave my life to the Lord, and continue to do so on a daily basis by living for Him, I wouldn't trade that relationship with Him for anything in the world.

I've been through some really tough times, but even when it was hard, the Lord was always there working quietly and gently to bless and prosper me with Himself. He is all I need. And as I continue to walk with Him, He just blesses me with His presence and reveals more of Himself, His very nature, and His ways, and He is so awesome!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 8 2007, 07:57 AM) [snapback]386895[/snapback]</div>

Watch out, TJ. I sense a "there's only one truth" coming....

DUCK!!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 8 2007, 09:59 AM) [snapback]386906[/snapback]</div>

Save yourself sometime realizing that a conversation is hopeless once someone cites "scripture" or "my pastor". There's been a lot of progress since the Dark Ages and there is no reason to retrace those steps on an individual basis.

Previously I would see this as harmless delusion, like a child's tooth fairy or Santa Claus but lately it worries me because it appears this is where fundamentalism and radicalism begins. Indirectly the religious in America validates the extremist in the Middle East because we have this idea that religious ideas are absolute and should not be criticized.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Feb 8 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]386911[/snapback]</div>

I agree. You'll notice that's why I didn't get in the middle of the ping-pong proselytizing and preaching. Wow--cool alliteration!

TJ's got more patience than I do...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 8 2007, 08:56 AM) [snapback]386912[/snapback]</div>

I've played that game before too.. thats why I hesitated before getting involved.

 

Alric, it's unfortunate, but Jesus says that "there will be wars and rumors of war, but the end is not yet come."

I don't advocate war, but the people who are fighting, and dying in a war, are fighting because they believe in what they are doing, so much so that they are willing to put their life on the line. They are living out their belief(s).

One day there will be no more war, but not as long as this earth, as we know it exists. Until then, there will always be war.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 8 2007, 06:57 AM) [snapback]386895[/snapback]</div>

YOu think the book contradicts itself because it speaks over your head.

Paul said "I die daily".. but you don't get it.. just like the pharasees when Jesus said "except you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood you cannot have a part with me" and they thought he was speaking of canabalism and thought he had a devil.


You only show your ignorance on the matter to spout off without knowledge.


Its one thing if your asking questions out of sincerity, its another to automatically assume contradictions and error because "you" dont' get it! LOL!


Your reality is all about you!.. if you don't see it, it don't exist eh?

Creation is much bigger than you or your understanding.... you may be counted as a fool if you conclude you have it all figured out and settle with that.


God is merciful, but usually mercy is dealt to those who expect judgement and judgement is dealt to those who expect mercy or "Nothing"..... don't be a fool.


Your little pea brain "and mine" can't see and know all that is.


Like I said.. Man doesn't even know himself, and he thinks he knows God?.... in order to Know God, you must first be in communion with him.... how can you "know" your wife, if you never touch, hear, or communicate with her?

I know its embarrasing to act like you know so much and only reveal you know nothing about this matter, but try not to over do it, for your sake.


I"m sure you are very knowledgable is some areas, but this is not one of them...... so do yourself a favor.... Its wisdom to know when your over your head, and to listen and learn something instead of showing how much you don't know, by casting down the knowledge that is thrown at you.


You are your worst biggest enemy... your attitude makes no one want to attempt to help.... its called casting your pearls before swine.. I'll let you figure out who plays what role.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Feb 8 2007, 01:12 PM) [snapback]387024[/snapback]</div>

You just proved my point. Belief kills. And according to you justified by the bible, for the cinch.

 

Windstrings and loveit made my day! Thanks for the laugh guys/gals!