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Featured Dr. Prius Packs Less Than A Year Away?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by PriusCamper, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    When there isn't a battery warmer, car systems should be applying a very low charge rate until the battery warms up.

    Hybrids also don't drain the batteries completely. Pulling energy out of the battery on start up will begin warming up the pack.
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yea, that makes sense... And with Norway & Sweden leading the charge in converting all their municipal vehicles over to lithium, I'm sure they're writing up the programming that best addresses this.

    However for us DIY prius owners, what makes sense to me is putting some battery powered socks on the outside of the pack and running the heating elements in those socks on an upgraded battery so they can run for a full night or two...
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    12 volt electric blankets are a thing. Insulation alone might be enough.
     
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  4. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    If I ever go the LiFePO4 route, a battery warmer will be a must.
     
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  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    If you called up a small battery heated clothing or blanket maker and partnered with them to build a perfect fitting cover for the pack that's easy to install, Nexcell would be very much willing to promote/sell it for you.
     
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  6. dongfang

    dongfang Junior Member

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    Here are several questions I didn't see the answer yet:
    1. Need the SOC mapping between NiMh Battery and LiFePo, for 40% SOC NiMh Battery, the same voltage, what is the percent SOC for LiFePo? And how about 80% SOC NiMh Battery?
    2. Then, under this SOC range, what's the expect life cycle of the LiFePo battery set?
    3. NiMh Battery has metal case, but LiFePo battery combined two blades and use plastic case, then how are you going to dealing with the heat generated by battery charging and discharging? Please show more data about your Thermal Design ,and your Thermal test data.
     
  7. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    1) The power curve / SOC of these packs are designed to match what the Prius Battery ECU expects to see because no one but Toyota has the ability to reprogram the ECU. However the ECU is tolerant of a significant increase in amps available, so these packs provide that.

    2) NiMH was perfected in the 1980's into the early 90's, it's a 30 year old technology that needs way more material to produce the required voltage and that material tends to run hot, especially when they get old. However LiFePO4 is the newest most advance type of material being mass produced today and it charges more efficiently, runs much cooler, is safer that other lithium types and has a significantly longer lifespan than all battery types.

    3) That means it only requires a very small amount of material to produce the same amount of voltage as NiMH, which also means its temperatures are barely above the existing ambient temperature. If you want to review torture testing go here: Hybrid App - YouTube and scroll down to one year ago and you'll see 5 videos with the word torture testing in the title.

    If you decide to buy one when they're back in stock in the next week or two, please value my time to explain this by buying from my affiliate link below.
     
    #107 PriusCamper, Oct 11, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2022
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  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    When in Dr Prius going to make a linsight compatible pack?
     
  9. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I've researched this a bit and am actively searching for a Gen1 Inisght owner near me to work on this with... First step is to go to InsightCentral and read up on how to replace your Honda Insight Battery pack with Toyota Modules. Then the next step is to apply that knowledge with Nexcell modules. Let me know if you want to work on this with me?
     
  10. dongfang

    dongfang Junior Member

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    Please Use DATA to elaborate your point of view.

    It is not saying today's test result is good, then it is good. Testing on new battery is good doesn't mean testing on old battery will be good as well(I'm a RC airplane player, and I know how hot an old LIPO battery can be).

    As I know, both NiMH and LiFePo has the similar charge/discharge efficiency, which is 90%, thus, the rest 10% becomes heat, and that's why Themal Design is critical, while most people just overlook it.
     
  11. Plaman

    Plaman Member

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    I'm living in Denver, Colorado and would like to work with you guys on developing a battery warmer for these Lithium Cells, can you PM me so we can discuss it further?
     
  12. CrazyLee

    CrazyLee Member

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  13. Plaman

    Plaman Member

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    @PriusCamper any rough idea on what the new tech coming in the November delivery is? I'm bummed I just picked up my kit with the October shipment but everything I've read says ~55mpg

    How much better could this kit get?
     
  14. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    The new tech isn't going to have any noticeable difference in performance, but might last slightly longer after a decade, but probably not, or at least hard to say at this point.

    Usually pre-orders don't start until ship is almost into port and there's only a couple weeks or less wait time.

    As for 55mpg it's important to know that gas mileage can vary widely depending on lots of different factors... Best way it was explained to me if that if you have an old truck that gets 10mpg and sometime gets 9mpg and sometimes gets 11mpg that doesn't seem like much difference. But if you have a car that gets 50mpg and you have the same difference in MPG you're gonna be running between 45 to 55 mpg... And even Toyota considers a Prius that gets 39mpg to be functioning normally. So you'll be better off focusing on all the other benefits a Nexcell pack offers, like increased EV range, better AC in hot weather, faster regenerative time, no more dropping below 3 bars and being in the slow lane when climbing over a mountain pass.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    100Lb propane tank heater/blanket/wraps can go for over $500. And that's 'production' price. don't know if solo jobs would necessarily be a bargain.
    .
     
  16. Plaman

    Plaman Member

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    I don't think you would need that much heating capacity, now I'm going to prototype it because I'm curious. I'm working off the 2nd Gen Platform and per the Nexcell specs I see two significant temperature ranges.

    1 Month Storage Temperature: -4(F) up to 113(F)
    Recommended Storage Temperature: 59(F) up to 95(F)

    I'm going to target a cell temp of 0(F) or higher with my goal. I've started out the experiment using a temp probe and I'm working out of Denver in the middle of this cold front rolling through. The last two nights we've seen lows of about 19 degrees. I had parked my car by 9PM or earlier both nights and my rear interior is still fully gutted from installing my lift earlier this year. The plan is to sound deaden then foam insulate the whole car but this will serve as a conservative baseline as there is really nothing protecting / insulating the battery from cold soak throughout the night.

    Night 1: Low of 19(F), Lowest Battery Probe Reading, 38(F)
    Night 2: Low of 19(F), Lowest Battery Probe Reading, 26(F)

    The annual lowest temp for the last 15 years hovers between -10 and -15. Given my lack of vehicle interior, let alone my plans to insulate and build a flat load floor it seems like there is enough of a safety margin in the natural high/low cycles of the climate here to avoid a battery heater.

    But regardless, I'll build a small something and we can make this fun. My build is going to have (4) UT1300s for the battery bank to power the camp site and I'm going to lean on those to power the battery heating systems, much in the way that several Lithium manufacturers just include the heaters in the batteries. (That approach has its own set of issues)

    I will get my Nexcell kit installed and my initial thought is to establish a few RV water tank heaters on an external thermostat, tied to the 12v (or battery bank). I'm going to attach the tank heating pads to the battery housing in the hopes that it delivers the right amount of "warm ambient" conditions that keep the Lithium cells running at optimal levels as opposed to some other system where the heating element would be more directly attached to the cells and likely creating an inconsistent result.
     
  17. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Having a LiFePo4 go down to sub-freezing temps isn't a problem if it's not being used. The challenge is warming it up before your start using it. I think you and @hill are trying too hard... Maybe just battery powered hunting socks is all you need?
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    For starters, anybody got an estimate of the thermal mass of these Project Lithium packs?

    That would give a sense of how many watthours of sock-warming would be needed to bring them from x ℃ to y ℃ before starting the car.
     
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  19. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Warming it up to what temperature (="y" in ChapmanF's lingo)?
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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