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Dr. Prius Results Gen 2 2005 110,000 Miles

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Sean2005Gen2CA, May 11, 2020.

  1. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    I know I have the HV codes P3000 and PA080. I also know that block #13 is bad. Can someone please help assess these readings further regarding cell replacement and if it is only #13? Thank you!
     

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  2. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    Wow your a clown, A pounded clown. You put out threads about clicking and the cheapest battery rejuvenation system to buy and now you let the truth out. PA080 is a bad traction battery. Do some research here and learn how to rebuild it.
     
  3. Mavi

    Mavi Active Member

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    Block 1 and 13 may be the only issue.. block one just barely below normal. Each block is 2 cells. Best of luck.
     
  4. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    I appreciate your help and sorry for the multiple threads, I'm unable to post the full post I've written with links to screen recordings of the readings to create the full thread I have written, until I've made four posts, I am glad to take the other ones down if they are problematic. It wasn't my intention to offend you and I apologize if I did. I am just looking to get some help. This is the original post I am trying to be able to post, but I keep getting an error saying if it has links I can't post it until I've posted 4 threads, even when I remove the links I still get this error.
     
  5. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Thank you!
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    All the internal resistances match. It may just be badly out of balance. If so, a grid charger would fix that.
     
  7. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Thank you Jerry, I've seen you post very helpful information here quite often and I appreciate you sharing your experience. Can you rec. a Grid Charger I can look into? More information that I've been trying to share but disallowed because of the four post requirement that wont allow links and even though I deleted the links, the thread still recognizes them and won't let me post, I'm trying to just post a portion of my information to see if it will allow. It's also saying a sneaky URL exists in my post.. not sure how to resolve this. I've messaged the help contact feature here for assistance.
     
  8. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I have a Prolong charger. (Toyota | Hybrid Automotive) Mine is just a basic one that uses light bulbs to discharge the battery. In fact, it's one of the first ones they sold. It's a process that takes several days to do right, but if a battery is just out of balance, it'll help a lot. Even if you do end up replacing a module or two, it should be balanced so they all match again. It can be done with hobby PC chargers, too, for less money, but it takes a lot more work and time. There are lots of threads here about that. Depending on where you live in that teeny-tiny little state of California, there may be someone nearby who could let you borrow or rent their Prolong charger.

    The very best solution, if balancing won't fix it, would be a new battery from Prius. Obviously, that also the most expensive. Another option is a kit from @2k1Toaster that replaces all the modules. We have a few people here who have been successful at replacing modules a few at a time, but it takes plenty of time and a fair amount of skill to make the battery last more than a few months that way.
     
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  9. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Hi Jerry (and PC family),

    Thanks again for your help with my situation. Currently, I'm in the process of taking the battery pack out of the car. I'm about 70% of the way there. I've removed all the electrically potentially dangerous elements (12V and orange connector at ECU side of battery) interior panels and braces from the top of the battery that hold it into the car.

    I'm in email contact with Prolong about if they provide a step by step on how to use their reconditioning product in order to be sure I am correctly performing the charging and discharging cycles.

    Indeed, somewhere out there in the vast expanse of this state, I'd agree, it'd be a welcomed option to borrow or rent a Prolong. I'm in King City California, if anyone near by in Salinas or Paso Robles would be available to rent their Prolong, I'd be grateful to discuss options.

    The reconditioning pack is their most expensive product, but it could be the most cost efficient long-ish term solution for me, if I do end up buying my own. Two brand new cells arrived today from eBay, the shipper is great, for about $70 2 cells shipped after placing the order on Monday, they arrived today. I ordered two to start because I figured I could always order more if needed. I know you recommended inspecting block 1 as well as 13, I may need to get a tester to view specific module health to identify which ones actually need to be replaced. Oreilly's may be in my soon future. Any tester you'd rec. over another? It'd be my first time using a tester. I appreciate the simplicity in the electrical concepts of the lightbulb method, but I don't have a soldering set up, or a tester yet. I see Prolong has offered a module load tester but it seems to have been removed from their products.

    I'm a teacher, so 2k1toaster, my local dealer, and green bean are a big price tags for me. Green bean / refurbished options, I've learned from PC, may not be the best option for me. I've researched these options and found my local dealer battery pack price is $1950 (without installation fee), and 2k1toaster sent me a step by step PDF, however, there were some parts and matching of after market electrical components to the stock pack that I noticed may be above my pay grade to do correctly, also the price of $1600 compared to the job I could do of replacing and reconditioning for around $900 is a notable difference for me.

    As I approach opening the original battery pack, I'm reviewing old posts about counting blocks, in order to identify block #1 and #13. I saw you were active in a couple posts in 2014 and 2016 about confirming block order for Gen 2, and that there were differing understandings of block order. Were you able to confirm / do you know if the following statement is the true about block order?

    "Nope, that post is wrong. On the Gen II, the end near the ECU is block 14 and the opposite end is block 1."

    Thanks again!
     
  10. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    See the link in my signature to see the most of the processes of rebuilding, grid-charging, etc. It's not really meant as a how-to but it covers most everything.

    GOOD LUCK!
     
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  11. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Your charging and discharging screenshots only show that block 13 is a concern. While block 1 is showing lower when both charging and discharging, it is no more than 0.2 V than its peers. It probably will respond well to a top balance.

    One of the nice things about grid charging is that you do not need to remove or dismantle the HV battery from the car. As you do need to do this to replace the module in block 13, take the time to install the grid charger harness while you have everything apart. Once you have finished this remedial work and have the car all back together, to do later reconditioning you simply charge and discharge by connecting the harness to the charge/discharge equipment – no disassembly required.
     
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  12. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Thank you @fotomoto and @dolj for your responses. I searched through that thread via the link in @fotomoto signature to find the information about counting modules on a Gen 2. Starting at the opposite side of the ECU, starting counting from block #1 there, in pairs, all the way over to the module closest to the ECU, the last block set being #14, the final module being #28.

    @dolj thank you for your assessment of block #1 being a typically performing block, and confirming that #13 is the block of concern. As you mentioned, it is time to replace #13 and while the entire pack is removed while doing this work, I'll install the harness to stay in place for future reconditioning.

    I am planning to order the Deluxe Prolong Reconditioning Package today or tomorrow, unless anyone would recommend purchasing the "Value Reconditioning Package" as opposed to the "Deluxe". The deluxe seems to be a more user friendly package, although it is around $200 more.

    In my emails with Prolong, I've learned today that they do not have the Prolong Deluxe Reconditioning Package for Toyota 2004-2009 currently in stock, so June 2nd could be the earliest anticipated arrival because; "any new orders that come in for a product we don't have in stock we estimate 2 weeks for us to have units available to send, after that it will be 2-3 days for you to get it, so two weeks from today it will be on May 28th so that's when the unit will be shipping out (approximately) and then 2-3 days for you to get it."

    I guess it is fortunate that I am doing this work now, as I don't have immediate travel needs outside of trips to the grocery store, with our shelter in place situation. I live in a small town, where I could bike to the store when needed, but it is a bit unsettling having the car out of commission for so long. To cope with the temporary vehicular downtime, I'll do everything I can to do the job right by staying organized, and cleaning various components to restore the health and effectiveness of the pack.
     
  13. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Ordered the Prolong Deluxe Reconditioning kit today! Excited to take an informed and long term solution oriented step toward maintenance. I'm in the middle of the cleaning / taking part process now. I have the blocks numbered and will be replacing #13 over the weekend. I'm also planning to clean the hybrid cooling fan while I'm waiting for the Prolong to arrive (June 3rd-ish). Here's some pictures to update my progress. Can't thank you all enough for lending a hand to a first timer in this process, you've helped solidify my confidence to try, and my interest to learn.

     
  14. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Quick update on my progress thus far; The Prolong Deluxe Reconditioning Kit shipped today! The process seems to be moving along well, and I've had fluent communication via email with a representative from their company. I replaced the #13 block with two new cells, and although I believe I correctly identified the faulty block, I'll test the cells when the kit arrives with the module tester, just to confirm the health of the pack and the replaced cells. While my car is hibernating in the garage as I'm working on the battery, I'm researching other maintenance I can do during this downtime. I removed and cleaned the HV cooling fan, it wasn't terribly full of dirt and dust, but I'm glad I cleaned it because the end result was a fan that looked much cleaner than it did when I took it out. I did the small job of cleaning off the cabin filter behind the glove box as well. Any other suggestions for regular maintenance duties like these that anyone would recommend would be appreciated! Here's the pictures of the fan before and after and the pack with the two new cells;
     

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  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Nice job on the fan, it is now just like a bought one!
    • Change oil and filter.
    • Drain and refill inverter loop, if never done or in the last 50,000 miles. If the inverter coolant movement is not strong (moderately turbulent), you might want to replace the inverter coolant water pump (ICWP) with a new OEM one.
    • Clean and refit, brake components, lubricate as specified, check the slide pins and clean and regrease with Lithium soap base glycol grease (or equivalent) OEM part number is 08887-01206 - Rubber Grease - 100g. This should set you back ~$9.00 and will last you a long time. Measure the pads while it is all apart.
    • Drain and refill transaxle.
    • Check Engine air filter. Replace if it hasn't been done in the last 30,000 - 50,000 miles.
    • Check cabin air filter and replace it if you can't see daylight through it after tapping/vacuuming it out. Or if it hasn't been changed in the last 50,000 miles.
    That should fill in the time nicely.

    Keep up the good work.
     
    #15 dolj, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  16. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Add sparkplug change if the originals are still in it @ +100k miles.
     
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  17. Sean2005Gen2CA

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    Good news! The Prolong Deluxe Reconditioning Kit arrived quite early, I was expecting early June, but it arrived yesterday! I am pleased with their customer support so far, and with their speedy fulfillment of my order. I've been reading up on HybridAutomotive's website product guides, but am not quite sure how to step by step set this up. I’m planning to call and begin an over the phone walk through of the suggested process on Monday.

    I’m not completely ready at this point to begin the process, as I’m still cleaning the bus bars, and considering the health of the modules. I measured with a voltmeter today (not “load testing”) and found some new information (will attach picture of #1 - #28 module readings) about two modules that are still in the pack, and the ones I replaced (block #13).

    #1 = 7.43
    #28 = 7.42

    I’ve read that this can be typical of the outermost modules, that they can be weaker. With the rest of the modules around 7.52, I am unsure if modules #1 and #28 ought to be replaced, or if the Reconditioning process will even #1 and #28 out.

    Block #13 (listed at the bottom of the chart I uploaded, currently removed from the pack) was originally identified as the problematic module pair through the Dr. Prius readings, and I tested those with the voltmeter. They read;

    #25 = 7.53
    #26 = 6.30

    I was reassured that I’d counted correctly across the modules and replaced the correct block when I discovered the 6.30, but I’m kicking myself for having begun reassembly of the pack (compression block, two case bolts, bolts underneath the modules, sensors, vent tubes) before realizing that #25 seems to still be good and could be swapped back in for #1 or #28. Typical of the journey of the first timer, taking it apart again may be in my future. I suppose it will be worth it though, if there is a consensus that is the correct action to take, if it prolongs the next time I have to take the pack all the way out of the car again.

    Am I on the right track regarding non load test voltmeter readings, and is it the right move to swap #25 back into the deck for either #1 or #28, or are those measurements negligible in consideration of the soon to be done prolong reconditioning process?

    As for keeping busy with maintenance, cleaning those bus bars was quite an adventure. After several household remedy attempts because distilled white vinegar had been out of stock at the supermarket, I found some today and shook that copper up in salt and baking soda. I'm very excited for them to be clean and remain clean! I’ve ordered new engine and cabin air filters from eBay and will install when they arrive, will definitely do an oil and filter change soon, and will research the items listed such as spark plugs etc. Side note: I've heard mixed reviews about using dielectric grease on bus bars, should I install bus bars clean and dry as Toyota originally did, or use a conductivity aid such as dielectric grease?

    Thank you everyone for your continued support and expertise throughout this process!
     

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  18. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    Shortly after buying our Gen 2, I found it necessary to leave the car sitting for 5 weeks while I was out of town. Upon my return, I measured the voltages on the battery's blocks using Torque Pro and found that indeed blocks #1 and #14 had discharged to a lower value than had the others. I believe if I had left the car much longer, the voltage difference would have been significant enough to raise a trouble code and the battery could not have recovered from that out of balance condition. The car had about 215k miles on the original battery at the time. Almost 4 years later, the car now has 286k miles and I still have not had to recondition the battery or replace any modules. Lesson learned, though. I have not let it sit for more than a couple of weeks at a time after that initial scare.
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I don't think silicon dielectric grease is conductive. I'd play it safe, install dry.

    If you're hurting to apply something, do it after they're torqued, just overtop of the nuts and exposed zones of bus bars.. 48 inch/pounds is the nut torque btw, I can post info from Repair Manual in a bit.

    Update: Repair Manual excerpt attached:
     

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    #19 Mendel Leisk, May 24, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    @edthefox5 recommends this grease:

    Ilsco DE-OX-8OZ

    Here:

    HV battery corrosion | Page 2 | PriusChat

    The link appears to be dead, but the above text string you can google search. If you include "amazon" as well, you'll find that grease, plus a host of other suggestions. There are some greases that are both corrosion protective and conductant I think??
     
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