DRAFT Transaxle Oil Testing Results

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bwilson4web, Oct 13, 2007.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    etp, this may highlight the difference between Prius transaxle and conventional auto. trans. In the latter the fluid 'does work" while in the Prius it is only lube and heat transfer.

    It is certainly possible that a Prius fluid change could mobilize varnish as passage-plugging goo, but it seems much more likely in the other systems.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Not enough samples of transaxle failures. We've seen less than a dozen transaxle failures. But we were able to document an increasing load of contaminates in the oil and loss of viscosity.

    As Doug pointed out, our transaxle are significantly different as there are no hydraulic operations in the Prius transaxles ... none. So when we change the transaxle oil, we restore the original viscosity and remove wear material.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    They still do. Give them a call but I haven't checked the prices recently.

    My recommendation is:

    • basic oil analysis - $17
    • add oil index (same as 40C and 100C viscosity test) - total $20
    The two temperature, viscosity test lets us know how well the oil has aged.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. ETP

    ETP Ancient sloth foot

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    Makes you wonder if another type fluid would be better than tranny fluid. But I suppose 0W20 may be a problem for some of the parts/maybe. CVT fluid should work.
     
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  6. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Monitor transaxle temperature?

    How do you monitor the transaxle temperature? Can ScanGauge do it?
     
  7. satwood

    satwood Member

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    Latest data with RedLine D6 ATF

    Good Morning Everyone,

    As I reported earlier, I'm one of the owners testing the Redline D6 transaxle fluid instead of the factory WS. I made the change last year at 35K miles and had the factory oil tested as a baseline. Since then I have put 23K miles on the Redline oil and changed it for the first test sample. Total mileage at change was 57691. I had hoped to put more miles on but I've been out of town a lot. The car is used primarily for long highway trips, daily and weekly. The normal average mileage would be about 35K per year.

    It looks like everything is in line or better than the first factory change except copper, phosphorus and Boron. The copper number went up to 19 but that looks similar to other people's data. The Boron value went way up to 268 - I don't know what that implies:eek:. Viscocity stayed up. I don't think I needed to change the oil again this early but I wanted the data. Anyone know what the Boron value would indicate? What does Phosphorus indicate?

    My weekly mileage is right around 50MPG so the car is operating great and it drives excellent. I'll go for 35K miles on the next cycle and report again in a year or so.

    Here is the quick data. Attached is a copy of the report with both sets of data.

    Al 14
    Cr 1
    Fe 39
    Cu 19
    Pb 1
    Sn 1
    Mo 0
    Ni 1
    Mn 1
    Ag 0
    Ti 0
    K 1
    B 268
    Si 42
    Na 7
    Ca 25
    Mg 2
    P 660
    Zn 7
    Ba 3
    SUS Viscosity @ 210 F = 44.4
    cSt Viscosity @ 100 C = 5.54
    Flashpoint 425 deg F.
    Water 0.0%
    insolubles 0.0%
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Thank you for the data!

    I wonder what the error bars are on those numbers. Has anyone asked for them from the oil analysis companies?
     
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  9. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Re: Latest data with RedLine D6 ATF

    Both are anti-wear additives. For engine oils, phosphorus is usually part of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. ZDDP is commonly used to prevent cam lobe wear in flat tappet engine designs, which are not found in modern motors

    Boron is usually boron amide and is usually used as an inhibitor to control acid buildup. It can also show up as a borax, which would imply a coolant leak

    Since boron is multi-source, the testing of other additives and compounds will determine if the source is an additive, or a problem
     
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  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Some are expected ranges, eg a xW-30 should test out at around 9.3-12.5 cSt @ 100 C. Others are "universal" averages, which are expected ranges

    Most oil analysis will provide an expected range
     
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  11. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Thanks! What I meant was not the expected range but the uncertainty (error bar) of each measured value. For example if the amount of Al comes back at 14 as in the data shared by satwood, is it 14 +/- 1, or 14 +/- 10 ?
     
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  12. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The testing lab I use, it's +/- 5%
     
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  13. snijd

    snijd DIY or die

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    Re: Latest data with RedLine D6 ATF

    This is an encouraging result. I replaced my Gen II's WS with D6 in July, but haven't done a UOA yet--and haven't driven too many miles yet. I'd hope for even lower Si levels, given that this is the second fluid change. I'm now considering replacing the WS in my Gen III with D6, which is beginning to look like a low-risk venture.

     
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  14. dcoyne78

    dcoyne78 New Member

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    Over 23k thats a lot of shear the D6 starts at 6.4 at 100 C so thats about a 13.4 % loss in viscosity, was there any increase in fuel consumption due to the heavier fluid?
     
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  15. udor

    udor New Member

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    I just changed my transaxle fluid at 56k miles (2004 prius). Still looked pretty good with a red tinge to it still. Probably didnt need to be done, but its done now! No point getting it tested really as it looked good.
     
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  16. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Huh, my '04 fluid was almost black at 12,000 km. Maybe our -40 winters don't help much
     
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  17. torrens89

    torrens89 New Member

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    This is Rich from Hopkinton, MA. I have a white 06 with pkg 7. Almost 60K miles. I've been using Mobil 1, 5W-30 and Fram filters, changing at about 5K.

    Re maintenance. The spark plugs were never mentioned. As they are Iridium tipped, is

    the 100K recommendation of the owner's maintenance manual a good number?

    Separately, what is the consensus on Engine Coolant and Inverter Coolant, mileage-wise?
     
  18. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Actually the maintenance schedule shows 120K mile replacement intervals for the iridium spark plugs. I changed the plugs on my 2004 at ~99K miles, the engine seems to run a bit better and mpg improved somewhat.

    I would say that you should observe the maintenance schedule regarding the coolant: 100K miles to replace the factory fill; then 50K miles between subsequent changes.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have an 04 with 70,000 miles. when i take it to the dealer for transaxle fluid change, what will they use, what does the owners manual say? thanks in advance!
     
  20. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Toyota dealerships have the WS fluid, which is called for in all Toyota automatic transmissions, eg the 5 speed auto in my FJ Cruiser

    Others have used different fluid. IMHO probably doesn't make any difference, the cvt in the Prius has gears, a planetary gear, and a transfer chain. No torque converter or clutches like a conventional auto

    Good luck getting an American Toyota dealership to even change the fluid. They usually claim it's "lifetime" or they will try to upsell you on a "flush" procedure, which is clearly impossible for the +04 Prius anyway

    With my '04, my dealership wanted $65 to drain and refill the cvt. That was reasonable

    Let us know how it turns out
     
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