DRAFT Transaxle Oil Testing Results

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bwilson4web, Oct 13, 2007.

  1. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    There should be quite a few Toyota dealers in the Boston area that you can call and ask for quotes and then decide which one to go to. Fluid is Toyota ATF WS (4 quarts). Good luck!
     
  2. jmossis

    jmossis New Member

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    ===============================================
    Re: post 02-05-2010, 04:53 PM, Cvt failure.
    For the record, this was in British Columbia, Feb, 2010.
    The failure codes were P0A2B/248 and P0A2B/250 but it produced
    all the sound effects of a failed bearing.
    I’ve since replaced the transaxle with a used one and am back on
    the road. It’s a 2004 Prius that ran 91K miles without a fluid or
    coolant change. I just got back the results of a fluid analysis and
    am a bit stunned by some of the numbers. I’d be grateful to for
    the comments of someone better informed than myself.
    Na 4
    K 1
    Si 236
    Al 210
    Fe 383
    Cr 4
    Pb 2
    Cu 37
    Sn 6
    Ni 15
    Ag <0
    Ti 0.44
    V 1
    Zn 20
    Ca 131
    Mg 5
    Ba 23
    B 51
    Mo 0
    P 304.6
    LUBE TESTS
    OXI 57
    V100 4.9
    V40 24.8
    W N
    ISO 23/15
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Ummmm ... change that fluid. Now
     
  4. swing

    swing Junior Member

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    Newbie herein CT USA -

    I called Redline -

    ....they said that Gen II prius should use their D4 - as its the closest formulation to the Toyota factory spec.

    >> But i saw folks here reccomending Redline D5? or D6?

    Redline says those are about 15% thinner than the D4/Toyot-spec fluid.

    Whats the scoop? (i'm at 32k miles)
     
  5. snijd

    snijd DIY or die

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    I'm amazed Red Line suggested using D4 as an alternative to WS. I believe it has a much higher viscosity. D6 is actually very close to WS. Here's the response I received from Red Line:

    "Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, The D6ATF is a suitable replacement for the Toyota WS fluid.

    Regards, Dave
    Red Line Oil"
     
  6. swing

    swing Junior Member

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    OK-Just spoke with Dave at Redline for the straight story:

    About 9 months ago, after consulting with the people who formulate the additive package for the Toyota WS, and finding that the Redline D4 is closer to the needs of the clutches in the Prius, Red Line changed their recommendation to their D4. At 15% lower viscosity, D6 will work, and "may" not appreciably reduce lifespan (?), and "may" give a TINY bit more mpg (?)...but to cover themselves legally, they of course had to switch to what the OEM vendor recommended they tell customers, to what they chemically KNOW will best protect the particular clutches in the Prius.

    Now that we know the OEM prefers the ADDITIVE package in the D4 -
    ....here are the Redline viscosity numbers for your reference to compare to WS:
    D4 viscosity @40c=34 @100c=7.5
    D6 viscosity @40c=30.7 @100c=6.4

    Bob Wilson: Thoughts?
     
  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    "Clutches" in the Prius?
     
  8. eXstasy

    eXstasy New Member

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    @swing:

    No wonder the Redline page no longer lists "Toyota WS" in the applications for Redline D6

    Redline D4 does list some Toyota applications but not specifically WS
    "Popular applications: Toyota Type T-III and T-IV"

    Turns out I can't post links to the product pages yet because I do not have 5 posts... I'm the ultimate lurker :)
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I've been playing in the Gen I forum and hadn't check here recently:
    D6 looks closer to Type WS but my only question are the additives. Type WS and Type T-IV have no molybdenum and because of the Wiki reported characteristics, I'd be a little skeptical of any transmission oil with moly. But from a viscosity standpoint, I like D6.

    BTW, their comment about clutches ... they need a clue. Perhaps send them a link to some of the Prius transaxle charts?

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. shaun

    shaun Junior Member

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    Not having a service manual handy, I was just wondering if the transmission pan that Bob dropped and replaced the seal/gasket for is specific to the Gen I Prius. When I called to get a quote on changing the fluid and seal from my local dealer, they said that the Gen II Prius doesn't have one to replace. Dropping the pan was not an option as it was a simple drain and fill.

    I'm assuming this is accurate, or have I misunderstood something with how to replace the transmission/planetary gear fluid?

    Thanks very much for any clarification you may provide :)

    Shaun
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Correct, only the Classic transaxle has a drain pan. Since you have G2, the needed parts include 4 US quarts of Toyota ATF WS and a couple of aluminum washers for the transaxle drain and fill plugs.
     
  12. satwood

    satwood Member

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    sorry I did not saee your question from last winter. Yes, my fuel consumption went down at the end but it also goes down in winter anyway so i can't tell you if there was any fluid impact. Now that it is summer again and I have another 10K on the next round, I'm back to over 50 easy so I don't see any obvious problems, so far...
     
  13. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    All,

    I just did the third ATF refresh in my 2004 Prius at 180k miles. The results look great and are attached here. Bob Wilson Has analyzed these results in Prius_Technical_Discussion or MyHybridCar. My (and Bob's) thoughts after looking carefully at them is:

    1. Do your first ATF refresh early at 30k miles to flush out some of the "Break-In" wear materials.
    2. Then after another 60k miles do your second ATF refresh
    3. After that you can consider stretching the interval out to perhaps as much as 90k miles (there is some question about the viscosity change beyond 60k miles, but the wear materials should be fine).
    I have always used Toyota Type WS ATF in my Prius. Others have used other brands, but we have no laboratory data showing the safety or effectiveness of other ATF brands.

    All of my ATF tests were done by R&G labs (formerly PDMA). Others have used Blackstone Labs, but it is difficult to make accurate comparisons as testing procedures vary between different labs.

    JeffD
     

    Attached Files:

  14. snijd

    snijd DIY or die

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    Very nice report. I noticed that the silicon amount dropped by about half with each change. Perhaps the next UOA will see something like 20ppm. Do you think you're still removing residual contamination, or are you also picking up a bit of dirt along the way? It just makes me wonder if three changes in fairly quick succession would also get you down to 35ppm, and thus remove a significant wear agent.
     
  15. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Bob has noted that there does seem to be a sealant leaching the silicon (and perhaps some iron) into the ATF. The leaching process requires time, temperature and perhaps turbulence, so short interval ATF exchanges may not reduce the amount of silicon in a later refresh.

    One effect of multiple refreshes is the dilution of small amount used ATF that remains in the PSD after draining so there would be some benefit at the cost of some extra Type WS ATF ($$$). This, however, would not account for a factor of 2 in silicon content.

    JeffD
     
  16. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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  17. Usman Farooq

    Usman Farooq New Member

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    I just changed my Prius 2007 Transmission fluid changed but i noticed that around 3 Litres drained out and 3.5 Litres filled in. Toyota WS Fluid costs me $36 with Free drain and fill.
     
  18. SRQ

    SRQ Member

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    Just got my transmission analysis done (attached); I have changed it (drain and fill) three times since I got the car at the original 29k miles. I baby the car, hypermile, drive smoothly, and the car has been in Florida most of its life. Very excited to see that my transmission is in such great health. I'll be driving this car until it explodes or gets hit by someone.

    "Wear levels are well below the universal averages for a Prius transmission (far right), and you went longer on this oil than the ~44,100-mile average run, which makes these findings all the more impressive. The oil is physically in good shape, with a viscosity that's in spec for an ATF, no measurable contamination, and just a trace of insolubles detected. From what we can see, this tranny is wearing very well. Keep up the good work!"
     

    Attached Files:

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