Drive the Leaf across the country?

The Tesla certainly took longer than it needed to. Lots of publicity stuff along the way. We have several EV drivers in my area (Northern CA) who have driven from here to LA in under 24 hours. And back in the same amount of time. Multiple times. In cars with 100 miles (or less in the case of the EV1) miles of range. That's ~800 miles in a day. So you can see that a month to go ~3,500 miles across the country is definitely taking it relatively easy.

Back in 1998 (!) Kris Drexler drove his lead-acid EV1 across the country in under a month. We can do way better than that today.

"Travel along as Kris Trexler drove his GM EV1 electric car on a 3,275 mile cross country trip without burning one drop of gasoline! The trip began in Los Angeles, California on May 12, 1998 and ended June 2 in Troy, Michigan"

Details here: Charge Across America home page

 

dareldd, somewhat off topic, but I think you especially would enjoy this site, not sure you have found it yet, but it focus's on the Leaf... many of us from PriusChat have already signed up and are participating there as well. Look for "KarenRei" she is pretty smart, and almost an "EV Nut" [no one can claim that title other than you though], also "Jessica with Nissan" monitors the site and sometimes answers questions.

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View active topics

 

Thanks Mitch. I've seen it... been there... registered... but haven't spent much time or posted. Not enough hours in the day, I'm afraid!

 

And now of course I've been over there to post several times. Agggh!

 

Using the Tesla's EPA numbers and their handy range vs speed chart:



The Tesla's EPA ratings for both highway/city are ~240mi. So using the chart above, divide the range by 240 for a rough approximation of how far the Leaf will go at the same speed.

I'd estimate about 90 miles at a constant 60mph. I think you'd have to be doing close to 80mph to drain the pack in 60 miles.

PS - chart looks suspiciously like all of Bob Wilson's speed/fuel consumption charts for the Prius, doesn't it?

 

Isn't the whole idea of a Leaf going cross country passé ... after all ... the Tesla already did it:

Tesla completes cross-country trip - ABC6 - Providence, RI and New Bedford, MA News, Weather

I mean, who wants to be known as 'number 2' ... it just has a bad ring to it

 

drees, what that chart doesn't show is the "mass" of the 2 vehicles, I think the Leaf is going to be heavier, than the Tesla, so those numbers are probably inflated for the Leaf. Again, we won't really know until someone actually does it, 90 miles would be tough, but I think expecting 90 miles @ 60MPH is very optomistic. The LA4 100 mile rating has mostly 35 mph driving, and that is the best the car can do, faster is less mileage... its simple physics as the Watts/mile increase.

 

Curb weight of the Tesla is 2723 lbs. I wouldn't expect the Leaf to be more a couple hundred pounds heavier. Let's say 500 lbs more or about 20%. Given that the Tesla has a relatively constant 50 Wh/mile rolling resistance and that rolling resistance will increase about 20% given a 20% increase in weight, that means that the 50 Wh/mile would increase to 60 Wh/mile.

Of course, that assumes that both cars use the same tires, but I hardly expect the Leaf to come with the sporty tires that the Tesla comes with, so I'd expect the rolling resistance to be similar. Even if not, a 10 Wh/mile is pretty much negligible at a constant speed when total consumption at 60 mph is about 250 Wh/mile (of which aerodynamics is half of).

Which brings up aerodynamics. While the Tesla very small and has a very low frontal area, it has a fairly poor coefficient of drag of 0.39. The official figures for the Leaf aren't known, but they have said it will be very good - the number I've seen is 0.28. So overall aero drag is also likely to be fairly similar between the two vehicles (aero drag is directly proportional to drag coefficient and frontal area - if you reduce one by one factor and increase the other by the same factor, drag will remain the same).

So yes - while the two vehicles are VERY different - they are similar enough that we can use data from one to correlate to the other.

 

This is starting to bother me a little. Did Tesla and Nissan use different test cycles? Tesla rates their range at 244miles@55mph, which is pretty fair and accurate to what someone will get in daily driving (with a mix of highway and city). Why would Nissan rate their Leaf at 100miles@35mph? That seems a little disingenuous and a bit dishonest. This will do nothing but lead to disappointments. That is exactly what EVs don't need right now.

 

Here is a chart of the LA4 test cycle, the average speed is only 21.2 mph...

Fuel Economy Test Schedules

 

This is not the LA4 cycle.

The EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule (UDDS) is commonly called the "LA4" or "the city test" and represents city driving conditions.
The average speed is only 19.95 mph.

Nissan is basically said this is a city car and will not get 100 miles if driven on highways.

 

no it won't but it might get 65-70 miles @ 55mph, we simply don't know yet.

 

comparing the Tesla to the Leaf is a waste of time. two different companies, two different technologies, two different Cd's, i mean, other than electricity, they have nothing in common.

as far as driving across country, there will come a time when that will be easy because charge stations will come. Nissan would not be doing what they are doing if it werent for the EV highway project.

its a perfect time to launch a vehicle right at the same time as the EV highway when it will all still be new and exciting. this will give them the synergy to expand to other parts of the country driven by the success of the Leaf in an environment taylor-made for an EV.

this will bring big-time money into the mix. not unlike the Prius whose popularity started on the coasts and moved its way inland, the Leaf will need the charging stations moving step by step as it expands the Leaf distribution.

 

Pfft. Too late to even be #2. The EV1 did it WAY before the Tesla. You're looking at sloppy thirds!

 

Not to detract from the Leaf or EVs in any way, but with this whole range/recharge anxiety, I can't help but think of the good old bicycle and the efficiency that's largely ignored. If we're talking about an 80 mile range with an overnight recharge, I bet Darell could cross the country faster on his bicycle.

 

FWIW, My Porsche gets about the same range at 55 to 60 mph as it gets on surface roads, either in town (35 mph limit with lots of stops) or rural roads (45 mph limit with occasional stops). I speculate that the losses due to the higher speeds are similar to the losses due to stopping and accelerating again.

My Porsche does not have regenerative braking, but we do not yet know how aggressive the regen on the Leaf will be. Will regen be on the brake pedal, as with the Prius, where nearly all braking is regen, or only on the go pedal, where lifting the foot off the pedal produces a small amount of regen? But we do know that regen recaptures only a small part of the car's kinetic energy.

The Porsche becomes less efficient above 60 mph.

I am going to guess that the Leaf will get very close to its maximum range when driven at 55 to 60 mph. Of course, very few people will drive at that speed on the freeway. I gather that in Los Angeles you can be shot for driving that slow.

* * * * * *

As for a race across country, Darrel could beat the Leaf easily on his bicycle. He'd have no trouble riding 120 miles a day, and I would not be too surprised if he could do 150. And he would not have to take a route where there are Level 2 charging stations.

 

Especially if it were stuck to the front of a large truck.

Tom

 

Way too high. Look at the range/speed chart of the Tesla. Maximum range will be at a constant speed around 20mph.

 

I really hope not, I want Nissan to knock this out of the park. Since this will be the first mass produced EV (affordable) to hit the market, everyone is going to be watching. So if Nissan fumbles this, it will hurt the ev cause and set us back 15 years.

The drag on the Leaf is alot less than the roadster(.28vs.39), so maybe that would factor in as a positive at higher speeds.

does anyone know the dimensions on the Leaf? is it the exact same as the versa?

 

I walked from Mexico to Canada in 155 days, I expect the Leaf to do much better.