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Drives Perfectly but inverter failure?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Nick900, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    I have now collected the Prius from the Dealer and have the list of codes he provided.

    P0A08/264 DC/DC converter circuit / converter inverter assembly fault

    POAO9/591 DC/DC converter status circuit low / input / wiring harness / or inverter fault

    C1249/49 Open circuit stop lamp switch / fault in stop lamp circuit

    C1310/51 Malfunction in HV system / fault in hybrid control system

    C1313/13 Open circuit main relay / fault wiht abs relay / skid control ecu / wiring harnesss

    C1377/43 Capacitor malfunction / fault brake control power supply / abs fuse / wiring harness

    I have taken a short video on my phone to give you guys some idea of what the screen is doing. I really do not think all the above faults can be 'real' otherwise surely the Prius would not drive. For example the brake lights do work! Have tried to upload the video but no sucess so will try to describe exactly the status.

    On strange noise is what sounds like a flat tyre from the front near side or US drivers side.

    CD, phone, energy flow / consumption menus all work fine. Radio is okay but when tuning each station it will not show the current frequency until you attempt to store it. Therefore as you are adjusting you have to keep storing to show where you are then you have an idea of how much further you need to go.

    When you press nav, map any of the buttons on the right hand side of the MFD the display flickers. Sometimes it comes up with the word Problem at the top of the screen. it is the same when reverse gear is engaged although this did work briefly when we got the car.

    The red car with exclamation and battery are continually on the MFD unless you adjust temp etc where the menu comes down from the top and obscures them.

    I have managed to upload 2 pictures. Given the dealer claims all these faults I am more inclined with my limited knowledge to think there is a couple of wiring harness issues and stored faults within the Main ECU which are not clearing rather than all these existing faults. When I mentioned this to the dealer he just shrugged his shoulders.

    Thanks

    Nick
     

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  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Nick,

    Let's start at the top of your list. Regarding DTC P0A08:

    Do you have access to a digital voltmeter? If so could you please measure the voltage across the 12V bus when the car is READY. You can do this by either measuring the voltage across the 12V battery; or else measuring the voltage from the dedicated jump start terminal in the main relay/fuse box, to ground.

    You should be measuring ~13.8VDC when the car is READY.
     
  3. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    I measured the battery using the battery terminals in the boot in 3 conditions.

    Ignition off bat voltage 12.5 V
    key in the ignition power button pressed 12.25V stereo was on
    In the ready position with engine running showing on MFD as feeding the battery via the electric motor 14.05V

    Regards

    Nick
     
  4. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Hi Nick,

    Interesting error codes there.

    In relation to the under-seat cables. On your Prius, which I think is a Tspirit (right?) you'll have two sets of cables.

    Under the driver's seat you'll find the Amplifier (which I assume is a JBL Amp) so any cables on that side are probably connected with that.

    Under the passenger's seat you'll find the cables for the Sat Nav.

    I know this sounds really silly, but I wondered if you had tried dismantling the dash and making sure all the cables are securely pushed home on things like the MFD?

    It's really easy to pull the dash apart. You do have to follow a set order to get everything to undo without damaging the trim but it may be that something somewhere has either become loose or got water in it.

    Do you know how the amplifier and DVD were removed? I wonder if some damage was done at that time.

    Have you tried entering diagnostic mode? There's several posts on how to do this, but basically you'll need to hold down the info button with one hand while turning the lights on and off three times. You can then read the DTC error codes for yourself :)

    Nikki.
     
  5. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion. Having collected the car I removed the seats and carpet and looked at all the cabling. I found a couple of connectors going to the nav with a little discolouration but cleaned them with electrical cleaner. Have just been through the MFD dispay menus and went through all I could find. According to to them everything is working perfectly but still flickering screen with nav functions and will not switch to maintenance. Still have same warning lights. I forgot to mention today was the first time I tried it but the cruise control is not working either.

    Thanks in advance

    Nick
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Nick,

    OK, the first two measurements show that the 12V auxiliary battery itself is in good condition.

    The third measurement shows that the DC to DC converter in the inverter is working. Both DTC P0A08 and P0A09 point to that part as being inoperative; this is why your dealer suggested replacing the inverter.

    DTC C1249 means that the stop lamp switch, the stop lamp bulb, or the associated wiring harness is bad. This is easy to check: step on your brake pedal and see if the brake lights come on.

    I don't find DTC C1310 in my repair manual.

    DTC C1313 means that ABS relay #2 is open.

    DTC C1377 means that the brake power supply (the large black box located near the 12V battery) has failed.

    Since you say you have no recourse against the seller and you are stuck with the car, I suggest that you try disconnecting the 12V battery for around 10 minutes to allow the various codes to reset. Then reconnect the battery and see how long you can drive the car before the codes reappear.

    If the codes reappear but you can drive the car, maybe you should do so for a while; then get a second opinion from another Toyota dealer.

    Good luck.
     
  7. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Hi Patrick,

    I have disconnected the battery and left it off overnight and for shorter periods. The codes are present as soon as the battery is reconnected and the ignition switched on. Is there any other way to reset the control unit where these codes are stored and might this do anything in resetting the MFD or the signal which is affecting the nav?

    Regards

    Nick
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Nick,

    As I understand it, each ECU separately logs and accumulates the DTC that it generates. The Toyota diagnostic laptop or hand held tester are required to clear the DTC more effectively than the removal of 12V power.

    Following is a full list of the possible reasons for P0A08:

    1. Auxiliary battery
    2. Fuse block
    3. Hybrid vehicle control ECU
    4. Fuse (for 12V electrical equipment)
    5. Engine room relay box
    6. Inverter cooling hose
    7. Water w/motor and bracket pump assy
    8. Cooling fan motor
    9. Cooling fan motor #2
    10. Wire harness or connector
    11. Inverter

    It appears that #1 is OK. #6-9 relate to inverter overheating, which is not likely if the problem reappears after the car has been left overnight with the battery disconnected. So that leaves items #2-5 and #10-11 to examine. If the car had not been flood-damaged, #11 or #3 would be most likely. Since it was subject to flooding and since you measure 14VDC when the car is READY, my guess is that the wiring harness or a relay/fuse box has a high-resistance connection or a partial short to ground.

    Now you can probably see why the dealer is not eager to work on this problem, as this is just one of the several DTC that were logged.

    Regarding DTC P0A09, the possible problem could be the wire harness or the inverter.
     
  9. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Patrick are there any more tests or inspection you think I could carry out I appreciate I am limited but the only connectors which appear to have had any contact with water were those supplying the nav and amp. Those at the base of the a pillar are fine as are all those in the boot. The fuse box under the hood was clear as well.

    Regards

    Nick
     
  10. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Hi Nick,

    In diagnostic mode you should be able to clear any DTC codes. Have a look on the forums for Diagnostic Mode entry - This should give you a better idea of what to do.

    I'd talk you through it, but I think someone else has probably done it better than I could!
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Nick,

    On the US model, the hybrid vehicle ECU is located behind the glovebox on the passenger side of the car (right side). My guess is that the location in the UK model would be the mirror image, or the left side of the car. Perhaps you should remove the glovebox and look at the wiring harness connectors leading to the various ECUs there, to satisfy yourself that the water did not reach that level. However, even if the water did not reach that high, it is possible that excess humidity within the passenger cabin resulted in corrosion of wire harness connectors.

    BTW, DTC C1310 is logged by the skid control ECU and indicates a problem with the hybrid control system relating to VSC.
     
  12. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Nick: You mentioned dealer said, " Very small pins on connectors " It may be necessary to use a strong magnifier, or a jewelers loop to see surface corrosion, either on male or female connector. Under a good light! If the vehicles nose was under salt water, that's more of a problem. It is generally impossible to remove a water line mark from seats and rugs, without great expense, so I guarantee the dealer did not go that direction. So the waterline mark is the clue to repairing all wire harnesses, bundles and connectors. They CAN all be cleaned up. Salt water corrosion being the worst.
     
  13. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    I will continue my investigation tomorrow. I can confirm water did not go about the amplifier and nav control. All the connectors underneath the seats are perfect as are both bundles of connections at the base of the a pillars. The more I think about this and from having done research about vehicles which have been flooded is the ignition was turned on and an attempt made to start the car when some of the connector under the seats were damp or even wet. This seems to have sent the ECU haywire and for some reason the ECU will not reset or 'let go' of the codes. Originally when I took the car in to the dealer I just wanted the warning lights reset and the nav and reversing camera to work. From this I had the dealer bascially claim the car is scrap. I could almost accept this if there were any driving faults or issues with the HV operation or charging but there is not.

    Is there anyway to completely reset the ECU on the car without having access to Toyota diagnostic equipment which goes further than disconnecting the power supply from the battery? As if all these faults were present and 'real' the car would not work.

    I have managed to do some more checking on the car and located the dealer it was taken to after the flood. He stated the codes were present when they inspected the car and for example he said the car was starting the engine and turning itself off randomly. It does not have keyless start!!!

    Regards

    Nick
     
  14. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    No Keyless entry?

    Are you *sure* it has Nav? I thought all NAV equipped Prii had Smartkey.
     
  15. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    It definitely has nav. Perhaps its the different between Euro and US spec cars.

    Nick
     
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I understand that the SmartKey fob operates on frequencies that are not allocated in Europe for that purpose; hence the Smart Entry/Smart Start feature is not available there.
    Hi Nick,

    Sounds like a Stephen King novel.
     
  17. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Your last para: In the US, particularly in California, it is illegal to sell, transfer a car in or out of state with the knowledge of flood damage. It must state so, on the title! I was always of the impression that the laws in England were even more strict. Sorry I can't help you on the ECU, Pat's the expert there!
     
  18. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    I checked the ECU behind the glove box. All the connectors were clear with no signs of anything. I used electrical contact cleaner again today and something interesting happened. After cleaning the connectors to the nav I noticed some verdis gris came out of the main connector. This did nothing to any of the displays. I cleaned all the connectors to the amp and again the same. When I plugged the amp back in found that the red battery and red car with exclaimation mark was gone once the car had started! Progress at last! I once a turned the ignition off and on again it had returned and there were no codes listed in the MFD. I had ran out of cleaner so will get some more tomorrow and go through the same process. Fingers crossed this will achieve something positive. I am now more than ever convinced all the problems are from the connector blocks at the nav and amp.

    Nick
     
  19. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Great, Good thing it wasn't ambergris. Caution, spray in one small amount, do not saturate! and take your time to inspect carefully with a jewelers loop, use a strong light. Sunlight is perfect. ( I know, hard to come by in the UK ) Blow dry connector with a hair dryer, not too higher heat. Very slight surface mold/ corrosion can cause a total loss of voltage level/ signal or a slight loss resulting in less than trigger levels of operation. Remember mate connections several times! Andy
     
  20. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Good news in fact excellent news. I went through all the connectors in the base of the floor. In the bundle at the base of the a pillar found the 2 lower blocks which had appeared okay were damaged. I had to cut one wire and make a separate connection from the block. It was a red wire so must have been some sort of power feed. Similar repairs to 2 other connections, battery connected and voila all warning lights gone!!!

    So now all that is remaining is the nav and reversing camera, I am hoping cruise c is okay but am straight on the computer and will report back from road test shortly.

    Going into the MFD menu nav is coming up with 'check' on checking in the current column it stated 48- 50 ? Can anyone shed any light.

    Overall to date I am elated. I could not have done this without the support from this forum thanks to everyone who has contributed with particular thanks to Pat and Andy.

    Am hoping I will be able to resolve this nav issue with your support and am astounded. Dealer wanted at least £10000 and stated it could go upto £16000 [not sure what that is in dollars] with no guarantee it would work. Now look everything almost fine for a few pounds of electrical cleaner and a couple of hours of my time. It is frightening to think that when a dealer comes across a problem which does not 'fit' with their diagnosis they are completely unable to be creative or think outide of the box. Morons.

    Regards

    Nick