Drought, Corn and 13% Ethanol

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by willrob, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    McDonalds, Burger-King. 3 billion gallons x 126 mpg of Diesel/EV/Hybrid = 378 billion miles = 100 days of US mileage, 30%.

    Recycling the cooking oil for transportation is a great way to go.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    BioDiesel is good,as long as consideration is giving to gelling prevention in cold weather. Also strict quality control and continued testing of bio product is required to eliminate damage to fuel pumps and injectors.

    DBCassidy
    .
     
  3. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Regular Diesel has the same winter flow issues and additives, block heaters to deal with it. Trick is adapting the current clean Diesel technology to the bio Diesel composition. But to the issue of crops and corn, not much of bio-Diesel is corn related and with so much vegetable oil already available to be recycled, Diesel/Hybrid/EV's could run entirely on the recycled oil, no fossil fuels, entirely renewable, very low emissions and no impact on food supplies.
     
  4. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    The question then, based on your statement is: why am I not seeing the bio_diesel at ALL diesel filling stations?
    Hmmm,this sounds a lot of the vehicles built to run on E85 - problem with E85 is ALL stations should have at least on pump. Again, same question: why is not E85 at ALL gas filling stations?

    Seems to me bio-Diesel and E85 filling stations are not readily availible to the general public.

    This is a real problem that is not being addressed, let alone, solved.

    DBCassidy
     
  5. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    Well you might end up with a bunch more fat people if we had to crank up the used vegi oil supply

    Mike [​IMG]
     
  6. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    When you run E85 you have to carry around a list of known stations or your sorta screwed [​IMG] Then there is the websites that have stations listed and a whole bunch of mystery stations you discover that are not listed on the websites.

    Mike
     
  7. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Hope someone can answer your question for you. Someone was asking where the bio-Diesel came from in discussion about corn based ethanol and I was providing the answer as to the origin of the bio-Diesel with used vegetable oil being the primary source.
     
  8. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    My guess is because it would require another tank in the ground. Same with E85, it would require another tank.

    Mike
     
  9. alfon

    alfon Senior Member

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    Ethanol is negative energy. The energy ethanol takes to plant, harvest, transport, distill, is more
    than you gain.

    I remember about 15 years ago that coal could be made into liquid fuel, diesel, gasoline, kerosene, etc. for
    at the time for about $25.00 / BBL.

    Now with oil near $100 / BBL you would think it would be feasible, but no, I can not buy
    either diesel or gasoline made from coal anywhere near here.

    It seems I hear / read about oil from algae, garbage, etc. but it seems to be
    one big pipe dream.

    If any substance could be turned into gas or diesel for say $50-75 /BBL it
    would have been done.

    If you could find a way to turn electricity into a liquid fuel, than you may have something.....
     
  10. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    hidrogen a very "ccol" liquid :)
     
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  11. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    It costs money & diesel fuel to take that foreign oil and get it here then create all that pollution to make it into gasoline. I'd rather burn something grown & made in the USA. The farm tractor working the fields & the big truck hauling down the roads can run on Bio-diesel so it isn't using fuel created from foreign oil. Maybe that would be a perfect example, but we likely will continue to import foreign oil and pollute the air producing high priced gasoline & diesel. Every drop of Bio-Fuel used is less foreign oil used.

    Mike
     
  12. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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  13. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    But that is the actual question. If one runs a tractor and whatnot on bio-fuel, to produce bio-fuel, does one end up needing more bio-fuel than one produces? If so, then it is stupid to do so. Hence the controversy.
     
  14. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    How much electricity and other fuel does it take to run a oil refinery? I don't believe making anything is a 100% conversion process. It take more energy to make something that you get out of it no matter if it is Dino fuel or Bio fuel. I am no scientist or engineer so I could be wrong.

    Mike :)
     
  15. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    Correct.

    You are wrong*. If it took more energy to process oil, then could be gotten out of it, we wouldn't bother doing it. The only reason to drill for oil is the vast amount of energy it represents, even after all the processing.

    * - The TOTAL energy to create oil should really include the solar energy that went into the plants and animals that it comes from, but we don't usually count it. In that sense, yes you are right. (note, it isn't included in bio-fuels either, which it really should since we could be harvesting that solar in another way)
     
  16. Murali

    Murali Junior Member

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    There are some gas-stations that serve the gas with no ethanol. Check this web site, maintained by another Madison, WI person :)

    Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
    Click on the state code and you get the gas stations that sell ethanol free gas in that state.
     
  17. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    Something I seen in the Shell video was the sugar cane plant is used as a fuel to heat the mix to make the alcohol. What is used in the typical Ethanol plants to make the alcohol out of the corn? Do they run the burners on diesel or natural gas or corn byproducts? How is Bio-Diesel made from soybeans? I find these Bio-Fuels intriguing, something made from something we can grow, something we can homebrew ourselves.

    Mike
     
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