Drum Roll Please - The Highest 1st Quarter Selling Electrified Vehicle was NOT the RAV4 Hybrid

did toyota supply enough rav4 hybrids?

 

save the batteries and chips for more expensive vehicles

 

As an Avalon hybrid owner, I'm surprised that car didn't sell. Only 3? Of course I guess they don't offer that car anymore, But the Crown didn't sell that well either. The Prius Prime didn't sell too well either in comparison. The Camry hybrid didn't do great either. To me that's sad as the type of cars I like the most seem to be the kind no one else likes, which in turn means they end up going extinct or becoming really expensive luxury cars only a few rich people are going to buy.

On the other hand, I'm surprised at number 4. The first three make sense from a popularity standpoint, people either love SUV's or they buy the smallest cheapest economy car they can. But I thought minivans were on their way out. I guess I was wrong.

 

Yep, 2022 was the Avalon's last model year. The Crown is a 2023 model, so availability could be a factor, in addition to its price.

The Sienna is available only as a hybrid. That's going to help its electrified numbers. The sedans are competing against an ICE version, with the hybrid adding $2k to $3k to the MSRP. They are actually doing better. Historically, hybrid sales made up around 10% of a model's total. Eyeballing it, the Camry hybrid is at 15% and Corolla at 20%.

In US, the Rav4 and Highlander hybrids are only available with AWD. This lets Toyota 'hide' the hybrid premium in the profits from the ICE AWD system. Which could be why fewer are available for sale than the ICE model.

 

LOL, yup, wrong. We've owned four over the years (if I count the Mazda5) and even tho' we owned other types of vehicles, we keep coming back. As I state in my sig below, it's the "One to rule them all". If you compare a 6/7 passenger SUV vs a 7/8 pass van, it's no contest as the van simply has more utility yet SUV's sell so the Sienna is #4 not #1.

The #1 complaint on Sienna forums isn't hardware or even software related, it's finding one to buy and/or paying beyond MSRP. They are made at the same plant as the HH.

We've been doing a lot of driving out west in the mountainous areas where infrastructure including cellular is very limited but highlander and rav4 hybrids are very popular.

 

Amazing! 668 Mirai were sold this year. Does Mirai still qualify for the incentive? I believe they are sold only in CA.

 

FCEVs get an incentive(s), and I don't think they are subject to the same limits as plug ins.

 

What is the cost of filling up Mirai with H2 where the commercial H2 pumps are available?

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Drum roll is a good way to present that information. It highlights the usual reaction to quarterly sales... that of disinterest for the bigger picture. It was worse in the past, when counts were posted on the monthly basis. Unfortunately, switching to less often clearly didn't help. There should be attention & concern for the absence of any type of clear strategy for transition to plug-ins, rather than still obsessing with results every 3 months.

It was nearly 2 decades ago when focus on short-term gain really got out of hand, resulting in direct attacks on Prius with the "stop gap" rhetoric from GM. There was a growing sense of desperation, that Toyota had strong potential to grow beyond being a one-step wonder with Prius. For those really on their game, they would discover Toyota offered 2 other hybrids in Japan... Estima & Crown. The status quo took its first real hit. Following that, it did here too with Highlander & Camry becoming hybrid models.

Fast-Forward to 2023, we see 9 varieties of non-Prius being offered here... 10 if you don't count the sedan & crossover versions of Corolla as the same. Each of the hybrids benefits from generational upgrades. 4 of them are only offered as hybrids, no traditional model. It is clear evidence of Toyota now being well into their engine-only phaseout effort. That "stop gap" is serving as a means of funding BEV investment, while at the same time ensuring used vehicles during the BEV transition are much cleaner and more efficient than other legacy automakers. Looking at the totals, I would say 87,419 sales in Q1 for Toyota brand non-Prius, non-plug hybrids is indeed contributing to that master plan.

Notice how the legacy automakers who present an "all in" sentiment really don't have any type plan for how to deal with their own transition? It is about to get ugly, when demand for their plug-in puts their dealers in an extremely difficult position of having no reasonable alternative to actually sell. Long wait-lists are inevitable. It's that part of the S-Curve no one wants to talk about. For those of us who's career involves long-term strategy, we see lots of warning flags popping up.

 

Yep, that would be a total deal breaker even if the H2 Pumps are available near me.

Going back to Toyota's list. Not that they are affordable enough, but if they get similar incentives as some other PHEV or BEV, I would definitely go for HiHy or Sienna for our next long-trip vehicle, skipping all the others completely. I hope they will get Plug-in Highlander and/or Plug-in Sienna that would qualify for the $7500 tax credit before it expires in the future.

We recently traded in both Pathfinder Hybrid (3-row midsize SUV) and Prius Prime for Escape PHEV. I was hoping a single plug-in subcompact SUV will serve the dual purpose of shorter in-town daily drive by EV and long haul with enough cargo and comfort by HV. After ~6mo with a single car in the household, I learned that Escape PHEV is just not as efficient as a PP and not as comfortable as Pathfinder Hy. I have done several ~600 miles trips on this car, and we truly miss the efficiency of the PP and the comfort of Pathfinder on the long road trip.

When traveling over 600 miles with 4 adults, the ride comfort and seating/cargo space are essential features. It seems smaller cars including compact SUVs are lacking in this regard.

 

I share your enthusiasm for the Toyota Sienna. They are unbeatable for long trips. Their comfort, efficiency and utility are unmatched. When we traded in our 2004 a few years ago a new Sienna was our first choice - until we began pricing them. Holy cow! In 2021 to get the features we wanted the asking price was over $50,000. Plug in Sienna - great idea but the price would probably stagger the imagination.

 

I agree. It will be very expensive. When I was looking for a PHEV to replace both the 2014 Pathfinder Hybrid and the 2021 PP, I considered a new 22 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in as well for it also qualified for the full tax credit last year (and this year as well). But the price of Pacifica Plug-in was over $50K already last year. The Sienna Plug-in will definitely be even more.

We had a 2005 Sienna XLE AWD but had to decommission it early at only 100kmiles due to rust issues. Although I would agree with the comfort and utility of the Sienna from that era, I was never impressed with its efficiency. The lifetime mpg on our 2005 Sienna was only 19mpg. I might have gotten a few miles over that on a highway trip, but it was always more costly to drive a Sienna than any other cars I owned after 2005. A primary reason for getting the 2014 Pathfinder Hybrid (used) to replace the Sienna was the fuel efficiency. I was hoping it to get EPA rated 25 city / 28 highway from it. But in the end, it also disappointed me. I could get up to 30mpg on Hwy with the PathHy, but only if there are no loads, meaning no passenger or cargo, and without any heat or AC. In most real-world situations ~24mpg was the best it could get. A bit better than the 2005 Sienna but not enough in my book. Current Toyota offerings of Sienna hybrid and Highlander Hybrid are EPA-rated 36mpg combined. If this is true in the real world, they would be very close to what I am actually getting from the 2022 Escape PHEV on highway trips.

 

Our Sienna was a 2004 LE FWD. We kept it for 150,000 miles. Its average mpg was 25 mpg but on the highway driving modestly I could approach 30mpg. That Sienna V-6 was the perfect engine for that vehicle, we did tow infrequently and it never let me down. Some friends had a Seinna AWD and their gas mileage was similar to yours.

I'm not complaining about the price of a Sienna they are probably worth it, just a little impressed by it - probably because I can remember a time when you could buy a brand-new VW Bug for $1999. I am sure a 70 year old with only one child left at home is not the target consumer for the Sienna. If I really needed one I would bite the bullet, go back to work, earn the money and then cough it up for a new Sienna- but I do enjoy retirement and found another vehicle to satisfy our transportation needs at a price point I could swallow without too much indigestion.

 

our kids purchased an odyssey, only because a sienna could not be had.

 

That was our conversion van back in the mid 90's. Unmatched for road trips.