Editorial: A Blind Squirrel Finds His Nut

Yes, Chris, thanks for coming in and sharing your thoughts, particularly the last few posts which were nicely written to convey information and not inflame.

It has been cited but must be iterated: that more companies claim to be more toward the 40 mpg end of the spectrum means nothing in reality, since we all know the EPA numbers are inaccurate compared to real-world driving, and essentially serve as marketing tools in the form of the highest possible highway number making the front pages.

In reality, we see from real-world users that the cars most offered up as examples of the Prius' obsolescence (Fiesta, Elantra, and the like), while indeed making nice strides for gas cars, get high 20s to mid-30s average mpg in reports from actual users (sites like Fuelly, etc.). The Prius in similar figures has a high concentration of mid 40s mpg, a good 30-40% better fuel economy than the other cars.

Anyone with some patience can beat those numbers, too, in all cars. Just putting an mpg display in every car would probably close the gap nicely between Prii and other cars, but for the time being, like you said, the Prius "is the best".

 

Chris, I hear you man, but times have changed brother. Fixing cars of yesteryear with clamps and screwdrivers may just about be over. The PRIUS is the icon of technology and sometimes many people get intimidated with the idea of driving it, let alone ever trying to tackle it on the DIY service end. Maybe you should just buy one, get an extended warranty and relax. Or if you have a some real balls, buy an OBDII scanner, a scan gauge and jump right in. Good luck either way!

 

I almost never get 50 MPG and my reasons for owning a Prius had mileage at number 5, well after more vital issues. http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...502-2010-prius-school-project.html#post979468

I had actually wanted a Saturn Vue two-mode hybrid, a car from a company that no longer exists that they never made, just advertised. It could be worse I suppose, the Chrysler company made hybrid Durangos and Aspens for 3 weeks, owners of those must be wondering where they will get spare parts. In retrospect, I do not regret buying a car still being supported by it's manufacturer.

Expectation is unlimited, but reality is fixed. f= ma A certain amount of energy is going to move a certain amount of metal just so fast. You can lower gas consumption by not using gas, but that does not necessarily lower energy use.

Safety and CARB regulations, I think. Toyota does not feel it can support lithium for 150,000 miles and 10 years, NiMH it can. The extra cargo room excites me as I was hoping for a larger hybrid the first time. (Check out my avatar photo and this one http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/22437_1348787722119_1304125006_985752_4829746_n.jpg This photo explains why I am not getting 50 MPG, as well, back to f=ma, I raised m)

So man up and build one. These folk did
Got Hybrid? - Sport - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver
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Factory hot rods are for posers.

I want to very carefully not accuse you of this mistake, but every single other poster who has claimed this, has failed to get two facts straight, you may wish to double check your 'facts'.

The United Kingdom uses imperial gallons, there are 1.2 US gallons in an imperial gallon, so it sometimes appears that European cars get better mileage, even when consuming the same amount of fuel. The Prius gets 72 imperial MPG in the European test.

Secondly, the European test is not equal to the EPA test mileage. Be sure you are comparing EPA to EPA or European to European. There is no conversion possible.

 

No new car for me in the foreseeable future. I'm selling most of my fleet just to pay my taxes and honestly, if I had the money, it'd be for a V6 Mustang. 305 horsepower + 31 mpg = mmm mmm good to me. As it is, I am seriously considering either an old, old, old petrol powered motorcycle, or saving up and buying an electric motorcycle. That's a dream right now too though. I do have my 35 mpg '89 Mustang up and running now though

The days of fixing old cars are far from over, brother. I want guys my age to embrace the challenge and convert some of these old dinosaurs to greener fuels. It's cheaper, it's cleaner, and ya get more power. Win win win.

Besides, I am recycling cars that might otherwise be thrown away, scrapped, or abused (by somebody other than me.)

No Prius for me. But I didn't come here to piss people off. Just to try and better explain myself.

 

How about .... put a fart can (ok, aftermarket exhaust) on a newly acquired Prius ... and .. some flame stickers to go with a lowering kit, custom rims and sticky tires !!

(I saw a dude with flame stickers on his 2nd gen. It looked pretty tacky, so skip that)

 

Well, this isn't going to be near as much fun if you are going to be "reasonable".

I would point out that you chose the adjective "attack". I think that is subconciously telling. Criticize? fine. But why attack something, and furthermore because it is...as you now admit...because it is the best...?

I think reasonable criticism if it is well researched fine. I think negative personal opinion also fine. Not everybody MUST embrace Prius.

I can relate to your feelings about your Jeep Wrangler. When I was younger...about your age..I owned a small Nissan Pick-Up...and enjoyed it for many of the same reasons you site about your Jeep. I called it the Model T...because of it's mechanical simplicity..No Airbags, No ABS...almost nothing electronic attached to the vehicle that wasn't part of the aftermarket Stereo...It was engine, transmission, wheels...and go....

And there IS something to that reality. It was incredibly reliable...almost because it had to be...

But IMO the days of those vehicles are fading and fading fast. Even outside of Prius, just your regular modern vehicle is now attached to a world of electronic and computer controlled technology. It makes all vehicles more efficient, often times safer, but increasingly less "owner" friendly as far as fixing and self repair.

Just open the hood of most modern vehicles. It's becoming less and less easy to recognize anything. Less and less is designed with the idea of owner access or repair.

I recently purchased a Honda Fit....not really comparable to a Prius in terms of amount of technology and design. But I was frustrated when due to a small accident I wanted the dealership to check it for any damage. I asked the dealership service center to look at it...and was met with an incredulous....if it isn't showing a code..then nothing is wrong...no need to look at it...

I'm afraid the days of modern transportation that can most often be fixed simply with clamps and screws...are coming to an end.

And while I support Prius, watch the development of Hybrids and EV's with great anticipation and interest, I do think something is being lost. But that often happens with evolution and advancement.

Now that we have automobiles....far less people know how to ride a horse.

 

Chris, please stop confusing maximum MPG (highway rating) with combined MPG or average MPG for which most drivers will experience. The new Mustang does not average 31mpg. That is a highway rating. The 19mpg city rating will bring combined fuel economy down to about 23mpg. The '89 Mustang will not average 35mpg either, even the 4cyl. I owned and raced an '87 and a '90. I'm very well versed in the old 5-ohh.

 

I don't think any conventional car will ever match BOTH city and highway fuel economy of the Prius. It is not enough to just match the highway economy.

The Prius' Atkinson cycle engine, engine off/gas off whenever off throttle and regenerative braking all combine, to my knowledge, not allow a car without those features to match it.

I see where you are coming from that the Prius is in the limelight, but it is not generally regarded as very stylish inside or out. The shape pretty much must be as it is for the low Cg. The interior could be cooler IMO ... (could they just get some Accord-esque design in there?).

To be honest, I would like to see Honda 'copy' the Prius (yes, a Honda full hybrid with a very similar look to regular Prius) but put their spin on style into such a car. To me, Accord > Camry, Civic > Corolla in terms of style and desirability, although it's hard to knock Camry's usefulness.

 

Maybe no one has mentioned ....

Can you test drive a Lexus CT200h? It's the Prius' bad little cousin Maybe you don't like compact little hatches since you like Mustangs and all.

 

In addition to the fallacy of quoting highway mpg, bear in mind that every time you 'enjoy' your muscle car you fall further below the 'combined' mpg rating...

 

I know it's a Prius site, but hybrids covers a lot more vehicles besides the Prius, which is the mpg champ.

The next best combined mpg in the US is 42, held by the 200h and Civic hybrid. The Insight 2 gets 41, the Fusion hybrid 39, and the Sonota hybrid 37.

The Camry hybrid gets 33 along with the Elantra, Fiesta, and new Focus SFE. Yes the Camry is bigger and due for an update, but traditional cars are catching up. The three are all automatics, and I don't think the Elantra uses any 'exotic' tech like double clutch transmissions or direct injection. None of them make use of an auto-stop system which would be relatively simple and inexpensive to implement.

So shake off the Prius tunnel vision. There more <35mpg hybrids than >40mpg available. Most favorable count is 6 to 4, and that ignores the high end luxury models.

 

Re: Credit where it's due

Speaking only for myself? I'm distrustful of anything you can't fix with duct tape.

Also, I'd be so up for a steam powered computer! If it came with a ventable whistle all the more better.

But sometimes I wish we all rode horses....

 

Re: Credit where it's due

My oldest computer had a 3600 RPM motor as the 'clock', so it ran at 60 Hz, not 60 Mhz, or 60 Ghz, just 60 Hz. I am so glad the bad old days are gone. (you rewired it to change the program, I paid a dollar for it and had to get it out of the building)

My first micro computer was oak, but I could have gotten it in maple as well, later there was a metal case.
http://oldcomputers.net/northstar-horizon.html
http://oldcomputermuseum.com/northstar_horizon.html

It got me through College!

 

Re: Credit where it's due

Well there you have it. My favorite aunt bought me a 1928 Underwood Typewriter when I was in 4th or 5th grade. The type James Cann used as a weapon in the Movie "Misery".

I used that wonderful piece of art and mechanics through 1 year of college.

Eventually, I was forced to embrace computers and word processors in the light of rewrites and editing.

I still occasionally miss the 50lb mass of iron and metal that actually built the muscles within your fingers up as you used it. But there is only so much you can do with white out.

 

Re: Credit where it's due

I had a word processor, but it had no spell check.
So after I wrote, I saved everything and ran a spell check, then re-fired the word processor, in a loop until it found no errors.
When done I had to shut down both to print, no background printing.
11 CPS printer made one heck of a racket!
TELETYPE MODEL 43 PAGE PRINTER

WordStar was such an improvement.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordStar]WordStar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

The more that you type the more that you show your inexperience. Please do some research before you engage your fingers on a keyboard.

Here I'll do your work for you.
Fiat 500 1.3 JTD Multijet 16V Pop DPF754.256VW Golf 1.6 TDI BlueMotion DPF1054.157Skoda Fabia 1.4 TDI GreenLine DPF804.157Opel Corsa 1.3 CDTI ecoFlex CO2 Pack DPF754.157Audi A3 1.6 TDI Attraction DPF1054.157Toyota iQ 1.4 D-4D DPF904.059Renault Twingo 1.5 dCi Rip Curl844.059Volvo S40 / V50 1.6D DRIVe Start/Stop DPF1093.960Volvo C30 1.6D DRIVe Start/Stop DPF1093.960Toyota Prius 1.8 Hybrid1363.960Mini One D DPF903.960VW Polo 1.6 TDI BlueMotion903.764Seat Ibiza 1.4 TDI Ecomotive DPF803.764Ford Fiesta 1.6 TDCi ECOnetic DPF903.764smart fortwo coupé 0.8 cdi pure softip DPF543.469

First: Nearly all of the listed vehicles are smaller and lighter than the Prius. Weight kills fuel economy. If the Prius was lighter and smaller ( oh wait, that would be the Prius c ) then it would get better fuel economy than the iconic Prius.

Second: If they're not smaller then they're much more expensive such as the Audi with a special package.

Third: This rating is very bogus because it only compares highway ratings not combined ratings. In essence the stupid writer has chosen to compare only lighter, smaller vehicles to the Prius hatchback along with a few special highly-priced vehicles and then he only compared the highway ratings. That's called gaming the system. My bicycle gets better fuel economy than all the vehicles listed.

The result is that all the vehicles in that list are about equal in terms of fuel usage on the highway, except that diesel fuel here is 10% more expensive than RUG. But what happens when these poseurs leave the highway? Then all of them are comparative dogs, but the fuel that they use remains 10% more expensive than the fuel that the Prius uses.

Nobody really cares what your opinion is of the Prius. That's why there are so many choices in the market. For you to write an article because you don't like a vehicle is the epitome of self-centeredness. Here's a hint, there are millions like you that don't like the Prius. So what.

Again your inexperience is showing. You don't understand the auto industry, the technology and the limitations. [Highlighted text] No vehicle introduced recently has put any serious stress on Prius sales. Not the Volt, not the Leaf, not the Insight II.

What is disturbing in this piece and in your replies is that in your youthful exurberance to promote yourself as the 'voice of the masses who dislike the Prius' you actually have no supporting facts for any of your views. Nothing that you wrote above is anything more than your own personal opinion.

Here's another hint: If you wish to write a piece with argumentation...you'll need to provide supporting facts, not generalizations and opinions such as...

If you can't provide facts supporting your arguments then it appears to readers that you're

• lazy
• uninformed
• only voicing an opinion

Take your pick. And as you've probably heard, opinions are like ********, everybody has one.

 

With regard to TCO, I kept track of every nickle my '04 Prius cost me, from purchase to sale two and one half years later (for cash to the original selling dealer) with over 70K miles. The result: a hair over 21 cents per mile. So that would by necessity include "depreciation". Can't speak to what it would be after five years and another few thousand miles to meet the experts "estimates'.

 

well, that's pretty cool. you're an idiot. thanks for posting!

 

Thanks for the b-day <3.

Anyway, I am reading all the comments and all, but I think I've explained myself as best I can without shooting myself in the foot any more than I have to.

Russell, consider this an open invitation to write for Gas 2.0 at any time. I even welcome you the chance to repost the editorial you already wrote on Gas 2.0 in its entirety if you'd like.

Anyway, I am off to enjoy a nice peaceful evening at home. I took care of all my debauching this past weekend, still in recovery mode