"Electric Cars Are Better for the Planet – and Often Your Budget, Too"

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by iplug, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Nice article/graphics from the NYT.

    Electric vehicles are better for the climate than gas-powered cars, but many Americans are still reluctant to buy them. One reason: The larger upfront cost.

    New data published Thursday shows that despite the higher sticker price, electric cars may actually save drivers money in the long-run.

    To reach this conclusion, a team at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology calculated both the carbon dioxide emissions and full lifetime cost — including purchase price, maintenance and fuel — for nearly every new car model on the market.

    They found electric cars were easily more climate friendly than gas-burning ones. Over a lifetime, they were often cheaper, too...


    Electric Cars Are Better for the Planet – and Often Your Budget, Too - The New York Times
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i agree with most of the article, but most people don't buy a car for a lifetime or consider the equation. a stream of cars depending on their time horizon and, the model resale values through that horizon, plus how much they drive.
    and, people are short sighted.
     
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  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    It may be in the article (no access from here), but an advantage of electric vehicles is that the battery box is (should be) trivially swappable. Replace with new tech with higher volumetric energy density, and get more range. Everything else stays the same.

    Old battery box can move on to a non-mobile application. Intermittent renewables, etc.

    I realize that battery thermal control can detract from this plug and play scenario. But that should be accommodated by non-short-sighted engineering design.

    In a way this re imagines vehicles as run forever (not really forever). Riding the secondary battery 'Moore's law' which is changing fast now.
     
  4. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    It's not entirely irrational to avoid a large upfront cost. Many/most may not be thinking about the economic/financial "cost opportunity" in mathematical terms, but in practice buying a vehicle that is $10k cheaper up front even though the same lifetime cost might make sense. For example if that $10k helps buy a college eduction and increases future earnings, or that $10k goes into an S&P fund and doubles in <10 years. How many of us buy a house all cash and instead go with a mortgage...

    This has been tried over the years but most of the BEV manufacturers, including Tesla, have somehow determined it is economically unfeasible without government subsidies. Nio, of same locality reasons associated with lack of your access to the OP article, is however giving the battery swap idea another go.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the new apple car won't even let you replace the battery :LOL:
     
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  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    No argument on BEV being greener than a gasser. Still, the main conclusion that the lifetime cost of BEV being cheaper all depends on where you live. The article uses the national average for electricity and gas prices. As the article points out, there are regions such as Hawaii, Alaska, and parts of NE that electricity costs substantially higher than gasoline at the current price.

    I can not find any BEV that is cheaper to own and operate than Prius Prime for now. Also, not many people keep a car for life. This may change in the future, but currently, the resale value of BEV is far less than that of a gasser. So, if I want to trade-in a car in a few years, again no BEV in the current market is going to be more affordable than Prius Prime.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That should mean finding a deal on a used BEV then.
     
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Nop, used BEV is even less affordable than a brand new BEV for the most part. Unless I can find an extremely rare great deal on a used BEV, it will either cost more to buy if it is newer and less mileage or have to buy an older BEV with a very short range and most likely with a degraded battery that will cost a fortune to repair if it dies. For example, I could have bought a brand new 2020 LEAF SV for about $20K with all incentives and tax credit but used 2020 LEAF are usually selling at more than $20K. If I go with an older Gen1 LEAF, I may be able to find at less than $10K but will have less than 100 miles of range that may not last very long and have almost no resale value. Compare that to Prius Prime in our area that can be purchased new at a price well below $20K and driven for a year costing less to operate than any BEV on the market, and still can be sold (or trade-in) for a profit. I can' think of any other car that pays me to drive.
     
    #9 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    BMW i3-REx price range: $12,000 to $20,000 (eBay motors offered)
    • 72 mi EV range
    • 78 mi REx rangę (coded)
    My 2014 BMW i3-REx, 43,625 mi, showed 72 mi EV range this morning. Left Friday for Nashville, 120 mi, and returned Saturday morning.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    As I said, I can't find any BEV (used or new) that is cheaper than Prius Prime to buy and drive. Used BEV with less than 100 miles range for more than $10K compared to a brand new Prius Prime with 640miles range, cost less to operate than any BEV. In fact, as long as Toyota keeps offering a deep discount and tax credit, I actually make money to drive and sell it year after year.
     
    #11 Salamander_King, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Actually I traded in my 2017 Prius Prime for our 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 and got $18.3k. But to each their own. BTW, I kept our 2014 BMW i3-REx and used it this weekend for a 'day trip' to Nashville and back, ~120 miles each way.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I traded in 2017 PP for 2020 PP earlier last year for ~$1000 out of my pocket, but virtually broke even considering I was due to needing a new set of tires on 17 and it was out of free Toyota Care maintenance. I just sold the 2020 PP for ~$4000 profit after driving it 10 months ~4K miles. I was trying to make a deal for trading it for a new 2020 LEAF. It would have been an even-trade after full tax credit on the LEAF, but I decided not to do that. One reason was that I really don't need an extra car for a daily driver as long as I am working from home. But the deal-breaker was that the dealer was ~300 miles away from my home, I would not be able to drive the brand new LEAF back home after trading in the PP. They would not deliver the car for me. :(
     
    #13 Salamander_King, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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