Electricity cost more than gasoline these days.

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by CaliforniaPrius, Jul 19, 2016.

  1. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, and I don't know what Bisco post you are referencing, but the only correct way to calculate the incremental increase in cost for charging an EV at home is to tally only the incremental increase on the bill.

    My very simple electrical bill is easy to calculate the incremental cost. There is a flat connection fee of something like $10, which I would be paying regardless of owning an EV or not, and there is a flat price per kWh. I would need to increase my electrical budget based only on the amount of kWh used.

    The only time it would be reasonable to add in the proportion of the fixed cost to charge the EV is for some unknown intellectual exercise because operating the EV has no bearing on the need to pay those fixed costs and doesn't change budget planning. You have to pay fixed costs regardless of use.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i agree with that, everyone's bill is different from different utilities. we don't have fixed costs, if we use zero, we pay zero.
    and there are no graduated or incremental costs, just a bunch of stuff like production, transmission and etc., which probably fall under different tax rules for the utility, or outside the legislature's prevue to regulate.
    every kWh costs the same, whether we use 10 or 10,000.
     
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  3. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Heck, no matter how one figures it, I would be happy to pay a little more for the electric portion even if it was priced higher than gasoline in my area. The sooner gasoline dies as a fuel, the better. This is why I own a decent hybrid. This is why I'm waiting to buy a PHEV. This is why I just paid the carpenter extra to add a spot for the soon to be bought EVSE installation below my new back porch (pictures soon).

    Sometimes it isn't the cents. It is the sense.
     
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  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    yes - that's one way to calculate. But on long hot summer days & evenings, the AC can run a lot longer too. So between excess cooling and/or excess car charging, those variables can really muck one's estimations up. Either way, those variables may drop our present-day $50 PV yearly surplus down to $40. Oh well, we still have room for another four-250w panels - - presuming I can find the older-matching voltages.

    .
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, that's why i charge every chance i get, even though it cost's a third more than gas right now.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Hey Big Spender ...
    .
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my father calls me moneybags.:cool:
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Better than late to dinner.
    .
     
  9. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Well, my marginal summer rate is 13.1 cents per kwh. If we're comparing to a 55mpg Prius G4 and using 120mpge (281Wh/mile), the break even point is $2.02/gallon. Our current price at Costco is $2.02/gallon. In the winter, prices for electricity will be lower, gas prices will likely be higher, and Prius mileage will decrease around 10-15%.

    So, at the moment, break-even in the summer, electricity cheaper in the winter.

    And, I can recharge a little bit at work for free (perhaps around 2kWh per work day).

    By the way, 120mpge and 8.8kWh works out to 31.3 miles. I know, we don't know for sure how much of the 8.8kWh Toyota will really let us use.
     
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  10. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    PG&E has an EV-A rate plan. Wonder if it saves $ over the normal rate plan with charging the Prime. Using less power during the day is hard for me because I need air conditioning in the summer.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
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  11. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Yes and no. For me, it's a no. PG&E has nice calculator that uses your own data over the past year and estimates what the costs are at different rates. PG&E said EV-A would cost more money than E-1 and so do my own calculations.

    The issue is EV-A removes tiers. That means you can use as much as you want and it will be at the same rates. This is great if you charge a lot off peak, which you could if you had a larger battery. In order to accomodate this, the rates are increased substantially over base tiered rates. For example, I had the first EV rate plans, E9-A and Tier 1 offpeak rates were 3 cents/kWh. EV-A is 12 cents/kWh. Of course my overall cost favors EV-A if get too far into Tier 3 on E-1 as rates approach 50 cents: kWh at peak. But I seldom do.
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Break even points:

    Electric gas break even.jpg
     
  13. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    I ran that calculator a year or more ago, and found that the current plug in Prius didn't work out under that plan because of the puny battery, but the Volt did. Maybe the Prime with the larger battery makes it worthwhile. I'll have to run the calculator. I'm not about to buy solar either, at this time.

    I'm considering the Prime, but won't buy it if charging costs more than plugging it in. Because the gas tank is significantly smaller than the regular Prius, I'll have to fuel up more often if I don't charge. Also, there's no spare tire and less cargo space. Carpool lane stickers, if they are ever available, could affect my decision.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Prime has the same size tank as the gen4, with slightly better hybrid fuel economy.
     
  15. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Trollbait answered this, but I want it to be clear - the Prime has the same size gasoline tank as the 2016/2017 hatchback - 11.3 gallons. At an estimated 54MPG, that's 610 miles of range, plus the electric range.
     
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  16. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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  17. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Don't neglect that you have a electric fuel station at home. Despite a smaller fuel tank on the PiP, I've gotten upwards of 700 miles before needing to gas up. Only going long distances does the smaller tank make a difference.

    There's another factor that is more difficult to quantify. I get upwards of 66 mpg in HV. If I didn't charge, this number would be lower in the upper 40's because my EV subsidizes my HV usage. At low speeds where the HV is least efficient is where EV is most efficient. All my low speed usage is handled on EV. EPA qualified the PiP as 1 mpg more efficient than a regular Prius.

    Carpool lane stickers were approved a couple weeks ago. Also note you don't get a spare tire with all Prius trims. Say if you wanted a Trim 4, then it doesn't have a spare either.

    For my usage, it required 10kWh daily off peak charge to make it worth it EV-A. So not even the Prime would be a enough to move off E1. Even if I had a Volt, break even is not enough to switch as I don't want cost to decide whether I charge or use AC for the home. So, it's basically full on BEV before I would change over.
     
  18. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    That's good to know. I read somewhere it was 8.x gallons. Wonder how they managed to get a full sized gas tank in there with that bigger battery?
     
    #78 MikeDee, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Bigger battery refers to the amount of capacity - not the volume of space needed to install. I 'suspect' that in large part, it could easily have to do with the newer chemistries holding more power, while taking up less volume, & @ the same time being lighter. Just a thought.
    .
     
  20. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Toyota's physical packing density (kWh/l) for the Prime battery is terrible - around 20% of the state of the art.
     
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