1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Electron beam depolymerization

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,211
    15,440
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Learned something new after skipping the human interest stuff:
    Xyleco's Marshall Medoff: The unlikely, eccentric inventor turning inedible plant life into fuel - 60 Minutes interview with biofuel idea man - CBS News

    What Masterman helped implement was Medoff's novel idea of using these large blue machines called electron accelerators to break apart nature's chokehold on the valuable sugars inside plant life - or biomass. Machines like these are typically used to strengthen materials such as wiring and cable. Medoff's invention was to use the accelerator the opposite way - to break biomass apart.

    When I read saw this, my first reaction was "BS" given the relative mass of electrons vs protons and atomic nucleus. But on further 'Googling', I learned that in the MEV range, there is significant penetration, ~5 inches, and apparently widespread investigation if not use:
    What I haven't found is an energy analysis of how much energy can be retrieved vs the energy expended to generate the high energy electron beams. To be practical, the amount of energy derived by fermentation of sugars that were released by breaking the polymer strings has to be greater than the energy needed for the electron beam to break the chains.

    There are other techniques including gamma ray, microwave, e.t.c. However, my curiosity is in the electron beam approach. Not discussed is whether breaking the polymer chains versus degrading the sugars is favored by electron beams.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,006
    3,510
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Even though it is not very revealing, seems appropriate to put corporate URL here:

    Xyleco, Inc. | Leading the Sustainable Industrial Revolution ™

    Any authors of electron-bean articles might answer emailed question about e-beam energy requirement.

    One gram of sucrose yields 0.44 kilowatt-hour if taken all the way to CO2. Confirm that math, in engineering units. if you start 'down the line' with ethanol, a third of carbon (and energy) has already departed.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,006
    3,510
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    In video, microbes cannot grow on xylose. That's not entirely accurate. I'd not bet against them 'evolving' towards more complete utilization under appropriate circumstances.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,211
    15,440
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I found a link to their patent:
    US Patent for Processing materials Patent (Patent # 10,163,535 issued December 25, 2018) - Justia Patents Search

    My preliminary scan of the patent suggests significant energy and a risk of overheating the biomass. A large part of the patent references the conveyor belt, cooling, and oxygen free atmosphere as well as shielding. But there is one obvious improvement, 'water fall' the biologic material in the electron beam.

    Below the beam, there are "n" catch slots. Each slot has a screw feed that sends the irradiated biomaterial to a lift that brings the material to the "+1" disbursement slot. The oxygen free atmosphere is helium circulated through a cooling and gas/particulate capture tank/filter. The material from slot 1 does its next pass in slot 2 until reaching the last slot. In effect, cascading falls of biomass material. The number of drop flows is large enough to handle 95% or larger capture of the electron beam to reduce the shielding requirement. Biomass temperatures are controlled by cooling helium in the lifts.

    The goal of this invention is to use high energy electrons to make radicals in the biomass. These in turn sever the chains, leading to more useful feedstocks.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,828
    11,375
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    We use them to turn xylose to xylitol for our sugarfree gum. The push to making cellulosic ethanol cost effective is in finding coproducts to make from the unused sugars, lignin, and other bits not eaten for the alcohol.