Engine Kicking On After Start

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by TSonn, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Uh oh!

    Oops. You did say that in the original post. Thanks for updating the info.
     
  2. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    Well that is super weird. Definitely no visible seals to detect tampering anywhere under the hood. Maybe under the car? Didn't look there. I guess I'll be stopping in today to see what's going on.
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Have you got any documentation, say for the engine replacement they're claiming they will do? Or whatever. Hang onto everything. Hey: set your phone to record before going into service...
     
  4. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    No paper record. I will definitely be recording the next conversation. Service tech said I was lucky I brought it in when I did so it would be covered under warranty. I didn't ask questions when he said that but I assumed it had something to do with the timing of the oil change and the safety inspection 17 days prior.

    It's really sounding like they are trying cover their bums for messing up the safety inspection. They had the oil level wrong and they had the condition of my brakes wrong.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    This is shaping up to rival the whodunnits we watch on TV. (y)

    Hard to say what's going on. Seems like your private seller sold you a car with a pretty heavy consumption issue.

    Then the dealership "mailed in" their inspection. I'm not sure why that would push them to offer a new engine replacement. That's a heavy price to pay. Maybe Toyota breathing down their neck, past infractions? I'd speculate if they do follow through it would in fact be a salvage engine. Even that seems over-the-top, for flubbing an inspection?

    The private seller is the dealership owner's brother-in-law?? :ROFLMAO:
     
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  6. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    I stopped into the dealership but the guy I worked with before wasn't there. I talked to another guy who looked up my records and said he thought there's really no way it will be covered unless there's a tech bulletin he doesn't know about. I told him how I'm in the oil consumption test but there are no seals to prevent me from tampering. He said it doesn't sound like I'm actually in the oil consumption process then.

    I then told him about my experience with my safety inspection and he made a comment about how the service tech guys all work on commission so he was probably mad and lazy when I declined the hundreds of dollars of upcharges.

    Putting a couple things together, I'm thinking he put me in a fake oil consumption test (no seals) to prove to me I need to purchase a new engine and claim he never said it was covered under warranty.

    He comes in a 7am tomorrow so I'll be there with quite a few questions.
     
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  7. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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    ASAP......
     
  8. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    Just a quick update:

    Decided to just wait until the 1,100 - 1,300 mile mark. I called to ask if I could bring it in early twice (once spoke to a certified Toyota tech and the other time getting a message from the service rep who helped me initially) and they both said I need to wait and that they couldn't do anything if I brought it in early. I'm not sure why they'd be so set on making me wait if it's not really in the oil consumption process especially at the risk of damaging the engine further (dip stick shows no oil now). I have about 300 miles to go to hit the low end.

    I also didn't want to go in the day after speaking with a new rep to have my initial service rep all prepared to answer my questions.

    On a different note - I got an email asking for feedback on my initial appointment (the safety inspection on 12/30). I left an honest and detailed review and got a voicemail the next day from the service manager telling me that they did in fact mark my oil wrong (i.e. didn't even check it) and he'd like to offer me a few free oil changes to gain my trust back. I haven't returned the call yet and probably won't until the whole oil consumption test is over but I figured it's not a bad thing to have the service manager on record telling me that his shop lied on my initial safety inspection in case something goes wrong with the oil consumption test.
     
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  9. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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    Clean the EGR System......................
     
  10. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    Well an unfortunate, though expected, update:

    I brought the car in yesterday after 1200 miles of driving for the oil consumption test. They told me I was down about 1.75 quarts in 1200 miles so I failed the test. "Unfortunately your year and model are not under warranty". So if I want to fix it, I have to pay $3,500 for them to replace the pistons in the engine. He said "this is a deal for the trouble you've been through with us and this car" meaning the botched safety inspection and me recently purchasing the car.

    I asked the service rep why he told me it would be covered and he denied it. So then I asked why he made me think it would be covered and he said I was confused because he was only talking about the consumption test being free of charge. I guess I mistakenly took the following quotes to assume he was talking about replacing my engine:

    "You've got a very small engine leak but we don't want you to have to pay to fix that when we might get you a new engine after this test"
    "It's a good thing you brought it in when you did so it's covered otherwise this could be a really expensive fix"
    In response to me saying "This is one of those rare times where I guess I'm rooting for there to be something wrong" - he said "Yeah, I would too!"

    Anyway...
    Anything I can do on my own to help this burning oil issue? I'm definitely not paying the dealership that lied to me to fix it. Looks like it will cost me about $8 of topping off oil every 1,000 miles so at that rate it would take another 400,000+ miles to even hit the amount of the piston fix.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I was just thinking about your dilemma this morning; wasn't sure what thread it was, good to hear a follow up.

    $3500 all-in? I would think about it. They should be doing a complete engine tear-down, piston/ring replacement with the revised/improved parts, checking all bearing tolerances, using the gasket kit listed in post #17 attachment, which includes head gasket and pretty much every gasket/o-ring/seal in the engine (...169-16.pdf). And sending the head to a machine shop for complete check, including valve reseating and seal replacement (seals in aforementioned kit).

    While they are doing that, perhaps you could take home and clean the EGR components and intake manifold?

    Appreciate you're on the outs with them right now, but don't reject the offer on that basis alone. Try knocking the price down a bit too?
     
    #31 Mendel Leisk, Jan 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  12. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    Appreciate the info! Seeing as I topped my original budget ($8,500) when I purchased this vehicle in December, I definitely don't have $3k+ to spend on this car for the foreseeable future. I purchased because of how much Toyota brags about the Prius being a low maintenance vehicle and my previous experience with the Prius. This would be the most I've ever spent on maintaining a car. I don't mind dropping $500 every now and then for brakes and other typical issues but this seems pretty ridiculous.

    It's even more ridiculous because Toyota knows it's an issue hence the oil consumption test and subsequent warranty. Are others upset about this oil test / warranty? It seems like quite a sham since the oil consumption bulletin is from November 2016 and covers 2010-2014 engines with the warranty being 60 months or 60,000 miles which means the 2010-2012 (and I'm sure many of the newer) vehicles were never covered even though Toyota admitted there was an issue.

    I'm honestly considering selling and being transparent about the issue to recoup some of my investment and purchasing a higher mileage Prius v and just hope it doesn't have the issue. I bought a 2012 v with 190k miles about a year ago for $5k and that one is rock solid.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I'm not sure they're showing all their cards. The way they ran the oil consumption test, without applying seals, is telling. I'd suspect that service writer messed up, and they're trying to win you back. Sleep on it. Maybe counter with 3K all-in? If you can't swing it that's that. But don't let your emotions govern.

    FWIW, some rough street prices for the parts:

    Gasket kit: $200
    Piston: $50 apiece
    Ring set: $100
    Head bolt set: $100 (verify they will replace)

    Machine shop charge to go over the head: $400?
     
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  14. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Hi Mendel, are you speaking in CAD or USD? Just asking because it makes some difference.

    Those High Mileage Oils with "helps stop/slow leaks", read the description on the bottles, sounds like a good oil choice from now on. We have an '85 Caddy and it would burn oil. One day at Walmart some guy chats with me about how so and so brand oil stops leaks/burning. I tried it and sure enough it slowed or even stopped our leak. I then went on to forget which brand after we stopped using the car....

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  15. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    I have a meeting scheduled with the service manager next week so I'm going to explain my whole thing and see what happens. I don't suspect they'll offer me much, but I've had a pretty terrible experience and I'm not afraid to go to Yelp, Google, Facebook, etc with the details of my experience. We'll see.

    I've got my first kid on the way in April so I could really only swing about $1,000 on a fix for this since it doesn't seem like a necessary deal. I don't have a problem adding a quart every 1,000 miles - it's just a nuisance.

    Good to know!

    Where is all that oil going? I have no leaks underneath and a tiny leak under the hood.
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I was thinking USD. You can look up the part numbers for the gasket kit, pistons, ring set and head bolts at McGeorge Toyota parts for example. They show the "suggested retail" and their bottom-line prices, in USD.

    High mileage oils work by having additives that swell rubber. This is effective for oil consumption cause by leakage through the valve seals, but not at pistons/rings. Also, once you start using it, you better stick with it: if you switch back to regular oil, the seals can shrink back, be looser than they were to begin with.
     
    #36 Mendel Leisk, Jan 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Read through the pdf too: it's a big job. I would ask a few questions:

    1. Are they sending the head out to a machine shop?
    2. Are they using new head bolts?
    3. Is the price firm, ie: if they need to replace piston arm, or bearing race, it's included?
    4. Can they come down more...

    Appreciate it's easy to advocate spending money when it's not yours lol. But I do think they're offering a decent deal, and "might" even drop a bit. Maybe Toyota might chip in a bit??
     
  18. TSonn

    TSonn New Member

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    I went in yesterday and spoke to the service rep. The original quote was already discounted. He said the normal labor rate is 129.99 and he gave it to me at 125 for my troubles. Can't come down more than that. That seems more like a joke than anything.

    As for the other questions - yes, they'd send out to a machine shop. Yes to new head bolts (at least that's in the quote).

    My question is - what happens if I don't do the fix and just top off every 1500 miles? Long-term engine damage? Any other mods or maintenance (thinking EGR system, oil can install) that can help prevent long term damage if there is the possibility? If there's no possibility of long-term damage, I may just top off every 1500. Otherwise I may just resell the vehicle (being honest about the issue unlike my seller), and buy a higher mileage Prius v to make up the different in money I lost.
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Good question, maybe more hands-on mechanics will weight in. One issue might be a catalytic converter failure, due to the burning oil. Not sure. I do think that takes some serious consumption.

    How many hours was the quote, btw? Did it say?

    I seem to recall 16 hours in some Toyota publication, but can't seem to find it in the TSB 169 pdf. 16x5=90, which I agree, is a bit of a joke.

    Try another dealership or two, doesn't hurt. Even if the others are higher, at least you'll know. Let them know they have competition.

    Maybe they don't care, hardly want to take it on, who knows. But yeah, doesn't hurt to ask.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Maybe a better job for an independent, competent, and hungry mechanic.
     
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