1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Engine knock/ping and oil burning - Berryman B-12?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by oldtechaa, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    I have an '08 Prius with ~220k. In warmer weather, when the ICE is warmed up, under moderate load, like cruise control 55 mph up a 5 degree slope, the engine sometimes pings a bit like marbles in a can. I've begun using only Top Tier fuel. Also, I burn about 1qt/2000-2500 miles. I only bought the car at 216k, so both have probably been going on for a while.

    I'm thinking carbon build-up and stuck oil rings. I was wondering what everyone thinks about adding Berryman B-12 Chemtool cleaner to the fuel at recommended dosage every few tanks for a while. I can get a gallon at O'Reilly for $17. This should help both problems. Any thoughts?
     
    Jmack111 likes this.
  2. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
  3. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I did this couple notes make sure your hybrid battery is fully charged by holding the brake and putting it in d pushing the gas just because you're going to have a hard time starting it after then I filled about cup in each cylinder let it sit overnight it's going to smoke really really bad no matter what you do keep the engine running by tapping the gas pedal no matter how much smoke there is it'll be very hard to get it started the second time because of cylinder walls will be wet but it did cut engine burn oil by 50% from almost being out of oil oil change with full synthetic oil I ended up going up in weight on oil I'm thinking it's a flat 30 synthetic made for high-mileage engines seems to work the best after my cleaning but the knocking is not your engine it's most likely your fuel injectors they're not pushed in all the way adding air for some reason I had to put double washers and sand one of them in half then I glued them together and I don't have the knock anymore try different fuel injectors i try a different washers oem washer too so either add the half of the top or the bottom doesn't matter it'll fix the problem you can't put a whole one on there at the top has to be half and when I put it at the top I had more gas leaks I'd rather not have a gas leak so I put at the bottom pushes in a little harder smashing washer so it in the oem spot and I cleaned under the spacer in the spacer got to get all that dirt out ejector hole without letting it fall in the engine I made a vacuum attachment with a tube then wire brushed it no almost 50 mpg had the problem with every Prius I've done fuel injectors on but one even the shop had gas leaks when they did it must be a trick to it I'm not aware of but it is all the way down or a bent the gas rail on all them which I don't see as possible on all of them I had four but the OEM ones are slightly taller (orange) but not worth the $7 to $25 a piece and still have this problem

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    783
    268
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    You did grease the o rings on the injectors before installation?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  5. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't think it's ever had new injectors. Does it need them?
     
  6. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
  7. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    783
    268
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    I'm sure they could use a cleaning. Pretty cheap to buy refurbished ones.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  8. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The hard part is getting them in there without leaking air or gas it's actually easy to do two bolts I've tried rebuilts off eBay for $25 pack of 4 and oems 100ea with the same results I use the cheaper ones

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    SFO likes this.
  9. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    How do injectors cause a knock? From everything I've seen, the load and temperature-dependency of this knock indicates carbon buildup in the combustion chamber.
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  10. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Air leaking into the cylinder cause of the air mixture problem or close to a misfire or gas leakage

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  11. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It can literally sound like you throwing a rod and the engine is shaking like crazy or or be fine at idle and just what the touch of the gas the engine starts to shake and make noise at other times you have to be going faster depending on how big the leak and what cylinder and if it air or gas or both. Fuel injectors are right next to the header so the gas blower operate very fast you have to go for a smell of gas as you open the hood. It's actually quite common.
    But if your car's not gliding like it should and the miles per gallon or low tvv oil control valve on the left side of the engine front will fix that problem the cheap ones work just fine. Should be easily going over a block of just glide without the car slowing down at all

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  12. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    It doesn't shake a bit, nor is the rattling especially loud, and there's no smell of gas under the hood, gliding is fine and my mileage is as good as I could expect it to be, around 47. I don't think the injectors are the issue. I'm quite certain this is carbon in the combustion chamber.
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  13. Jmack111

    Jmack111 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    370
    78
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    That's more common in gen 3
    You can open the throttle body and look down if it's full of junk you probably have a PVC valve bad and you're probably right


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    It really isn't a serious issue, since it's pretty much "occasional light knocking" and acceptable oil consumption that the manual refers to. I'm just wondering if I could help it a little bit.
     
  15. Natenew2006

    Natenew2006 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    4
    1
    0
    Location:
    Alabama
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Mine has 217k miles and also pings a little when going up a incline. Sometimes also when accelerating and going through the 25mph- 30mph range and fades out after 30mph.

    Only happens seldomly though. Sometimes never happens.
     
  16. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    7,510
    3,774
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Just wondering what octane rating of the "top tier" gas you are using?

    I know the US owner's manual says that 87 (AKI) is acceptable, but if you are getting a knock with that you could try 91 (AKI). With the higher octane gas it should have less tendency to knock. As a bonus, I found that using 91 was more economical cents/mile speaking than 87, even though it cost more per gallon. I also found the car ran better and had more pep accelerating. Could be worth a shot.

    As an aside, I have noted with interest that in the UK, Australia and NZ, the owners manual recommends RON 95 (equiv US 91 AKI) but adds the concession that RON 91 (equiv US 87 AKI) maybe used. It is the same motor, so I am intrigued as to why the different recommendations.

    The US owner's manual has this to say in regards to engine knocking:
    Your use case seems to fall in the second "however" paragraph.

    YMMV
     
    SFO likes this.
  17. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm using 87 AKI. I'm not sure how your pricing scheme is set up but right now here 91 AKI is about 30% more than 87. I don't think it'd be worth it in just mileage improvements. It is light and probably nothing to worry about; I was just wondering if I could fix the underlying problem instead of applying a patch to it.
     
  18. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    5,286
    4,226
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    According to the Chemtooler, you can use their product (part # below) to attack the above problem(s) in three ways.

    Either as a Fuel additive, as a Flush before an engine oil change (only use in cold crank case oil), and as a Piston soak :whistle:

    Be sure to use the proper Berryman B-12 CHEMTOOL Carburetor, Fuel System and Injector Cleaner, (the 15oz can is Mfg. Part # 084-0116, UPC # 75894001167).

    Part #0101 is the gallon size
    Part #0105 is the five gallon
    Part #0115 is the fifteen gallon

    Seems like doing all three at the same time wouldn't hurt, add some to the gas tank before the oil change, then add some to the cold engine oil and let it idle for 10 or 15 mins, then turn the engine off (and let the engine cool to below 70F) and pull the spark plugs to add some chemtool to the pistons for an overnight soak (cover plugs holes to prevent evaporation), after the piston soak, drain the old oil/chemtool mixture and replace with fresh oil and filter.

    Before reinstalling and tightening up the plugs, check for excess chemtool liquid in the holes. If found, remove with a vacuum pump, a syringe with tubing, run/turnover the engine without plugs installed, or just let it evaporate.

    Can't wait to see the posted results regarding your continued oil consumption (y)
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  19. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    221
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks @SFO, I've had trouble determining exactly which applications Berryman specifically recommends. Do you have a link to their recommendations?
     
  20. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    5,286
    4,226
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A