Engine Sputter at start for 15-20 seconds

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by andreimontreal, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. andreimontreal

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    I just finished the Invalid Mode rear bleed and more happy moments came my way. I turned on the engine, and the most unsettling vibrations like cartoon engine sputter began. I shut off the engine right away. Turned it on again, I noticed the hood was not properly attached; I rested the hood; the noise came generally speaking from around the gray engine cover.

    I watched in dismay for a few seconds and by the time it hit me to take out the phone and record, the noise began to go away and in a matter of seconds the engine was purring as usual.

    Anybody has an idea what that might've been? I read anything from dirty gas, dirty injection to bad ICE (probably not drinks related) ... does the bad ICE mean misfire in the cylinder? It felt as if the explosions in the engine were not synced and something had trouble turning, it had a rubber on metal quality like something was turning and dragging at some point with a half a second frequency or so.
     
  2. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Welcome to the knock club, we're always accepting new members.

    Check the egr pipe, if it's coated with a thick carbon layer, the entire egr circuit needs to be cleaned. After that, install an OCC & dump it every oil change. Had it done to mine, highly recommended.
     
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  3. andreimontreal

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    Had a good laugh. Thanks :)

    Btw, my reason tells me this could mess up things bad (read expensive) if not attended, am I assessing that right?

    Should these issues exist in a 7 yo car? I've had 10-11 yo cars in the family never seen anything like it.

    Is this the EGR cleaning that you talk about?
     
    #3 andreimontreal, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    What's the miles on it? EGR cleaning is something I did at 70K kms. Admittedly a little early, but I'd recommend to do by 100K kms for sure. An Oil Catch Can is good from the get go, traps all the gunk your PCV is otherwise dumping into the intake. Boiler plate text follows:

    The simplest way to see where you're at, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.
     
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  5. andreimontreal

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    Off the top of my mind ... something like 145k+ KM for sure .

    No worries. Got plenty of tools - my dad's a hoarder, my bro in law: something like that. What "we" don't have, I can buy. Emphasis on the "we" :whistle:.

    EDIT: Can I wait to do this in 4-6 months when my nice person ain't freezing ?
     
  6. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    I didnt know, you didnt know.

    And I just realized you had this thread going.

    It MIGHT just be possible that the above junky start was due to shutting off while the engine was running???
    This can cause it to do that funkiness.

    But with the above posters, it is a common occurrence that should be addressed with those checks/cleanings/occ
    As I mentioned in the other thread about this problem Toyota fudged up.

    But if it was first time, and the possible shut off of the car was with engine running, and as the weather is cold out now,
    it may be possible to hold off on it, but needs attended soon enough.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Maybe just do the pipe check first, so you have some idea.
     
  8. andreimontreal

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    Speaking of Toyota's attention to detail - did they address this with the newer generation or the same?
     
  9. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    Well they did somewhat of a change to finish out Gen3, not sure to combat the issue or try to alleviate some of it.
    in 14 the pistons were updated, and in 15 the rings were then updated too.

    As for 16 when Gen4 came about, they did do some changes
    I believe @Raytheeagle could break Gen4 down also in comparison with Gen3
     
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  10. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    If we are talking about egr circuit land, they moved the branch that sends back to the egr cooler to after the catalytic converter;).

    Cleansed gases should help with less plugging and other related issues:).

    But the access to the egr cooler is much worse:cool::

    FF355C28-0DD0-4469-8E90-AE9C0BEA409B.jpeg F7BDA5B3-20C2-4744-B7F7-2ED32E6550CF.jpeg
    So the answer to the attention to detail question is a tough one:(.
     
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  11. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    Well hopefully you have years to go until detail is needed:sneaky:
     
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  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Hopefully;).

    But I’ll probably take a peek around 100k miles:).

    I like to stay ahead of the wave not ride it(y).
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Toyota also roughly doubled the cross-sectional area of the EGR components.
     
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  14. andreimontreal

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    Thanks guys. In all honesty, I need a bit more research to understand thoroughly everything you said @Raytheeagle . I'm not engine schooled but I hope that if I keep working on my car and reading that eventually I'll get to know these things.

    So, what happens if somebody doesn't install an OCC in their 3rd gen Prius, like my 2012? What's the usual situation and what's the worst that could happen and how much does it costs to fix?

    EDIT: I was looking through stuff like Major Maintenance, and how to install an OCC can. It seems like the OCC install is the easy part, all the cleaning takes the bulk of hours. Is it a good idea to install an OCC if I don't have time to clean for 1-2 months? Or should I wait to clean then install OCC?
     
    #14 andreimontreal, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  15. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    A lot of victims usually post here with knocks that leads to loss of coolant then transitions to blown head gasket that cost a few grand for a motor replacement so start saving up. Reasons why I don’t recommend turd gens anymore.
     
  16. andreimontreal

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    Ouch! I better get my nice person back in the snow and start cleaning :sneaky:. At first I was dreading the cold now I dread this home reno job I have to finish for my folks; I wanna get done so I can clean that ride.

    Should I install the OCC asap or wait until I clean around?
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Here's Ray's 4th gen pics again, the first one rotated to normal orientation. For clues as to where the close-up is, look at the orange plastic brackets:

    upload_2019-12-13_8-20-18.png
    upload_2019-12-13_8-20-3.png

    An Oil Catch Can is not going to prevent Exhaust Gas Recirculation clogging. It "may" slow it, and at least equally probable: it may slow the build up of gunk on the piston rings.

    To keep the EGR in good working order on a 3rd gen, periodic cleaning (both the EGR and Intake Manifold) is the ticket.
     
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  18. andreimontreal

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    I was afraid someone might say that. Is there a general consensus on how often to do the EGR/Manifold cleaning?
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Yeah clean first, in particular the Intake Manifold, then OCC install. The intake manifold will be awash in the PCV gunk, so good to clean it and then install the OCC to prevent reoccurence.

    @Raytheeagle was saying 50K miles. Which sounds sensible. I'd be sitting on my hands pretty much forever waiting for that, so probably 50K kms for me, lol.

    Again, I did ours first time at 70K kms, and it was "modestly" clogged. I get the sense it's kinda like the coolant change interval, after the first (long) interval, you want to do subsequent services more frequently?

    Again: checking the EGR pipe is easy to do, to get your feet wet, see where it's at.
     
    #19 Mendel Leisk, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  20. andreimontreal

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    Probably dirty judging by last night. If I follow this Major Maintenance schedule I suppose that's an exhaustive clean/repair job? I plan to exchange only the parts that I need and to do the clean-up.
     
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