Enginer PHEV kit Rebuilt with quality components and new batteries

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by Jason in OZ, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    hi all.

    a little background for those who may not already know.

    about 2 months ago, i purchased a second hand 2006 prius Itech, that already had an enginer PHEV kit installed in it. the vehicle itself is in awesome condition. however, there was a big problem with the enginer kit (big surprise there :) )

    when i bought the car, i was fully aware that i would likely have to replace the batteries, and this was factored into the cost of the car when i paid for it. i got the car for a great price. basically didn't pay any extra for the kit at all.

    so, over the last two months or so, i have done much research, and decided on plan of attack to get the kit working properly.

    the plan consists of buying 32x 40ah Calb lifepo4 cells, a new BMS (one that won't cook the new batteries) and a better faster charger also.

    all of the parts that i need have now arrived, and the install will be happening saturday :)
    i have the camera charged up and ready to document the procedure, and once it's up and running, i will do a short YouTube video of it also.

    some pictures of the parts are below.
    the rest of the install pictures and info will follow once i get home after the install.
    i am getting the install done with the help of an ev building friend.
    all parts (apart from a few basic supplies) have come from EV power in Western Australia.

    the cells will be wired up in a 16s2p configuration.the total will be the same 4kwh as the original enginer kit should have had.

    [​IMG]

    30 of the CALB 40ah cells

    [​IMG]

    one single cell for size reference

    [​IMG]

    charger, cell interconnects and 2 more Calb 40ah cells.


    [​IMG]

    BMS unit

    [​IMG]

    16x cell modules, one module per buddy cell pair.

    Jason.
     
    Isaac Zachary, R-P, OzPrius and 2 others like this.
  2. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    1,146
    403
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    It looks like you are using a good quality Gigavac contactor with a auxiliary contact for feedback.
    The only thing missing on the EV Power BMS is a battery temperature sensor so that charging or discharging is limited when Lifepo4 cells are at a very low or very high temperature.

    Just how much did it all cost to do this upgrade. I am interested in seeing how your upgrade ends up looking like compared to the original Enginer Kit.

    Awesome!!!
     
  3. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    yeah, there isn't a temperature monitoring provision, unless there is temp sensing on the cell modules
    (i don't think there is)

    total cost has been about $4000.
    i think it will end up looking kind of similar to the original enginer kits.
    my kit uses the RFE cells now, and some of these are toast.

    the battery box will have to be enlarged a little height wise, as it's not quite high enough for the new cells.
    i will be mounting them vertically as recommended by the cell manufacturer. not horizontally as the original enginer kits did. there will be a 4.5mm sheet of clear polycarbonate mounted over the new cells as an insulation layer.

    the box will have to be about 40mm or so higher. it should be a fairly simple exercise to modify it.
    then make a floor leveler piece so that the hatch floor will still be level. once covered with carpet, you won't know anythings there. (at least thats the plan :) )

    also, i don't think the new charger will fit inside the existing battery box.
    it's just too big. so that will have to go in the hatch area. probably bolted to the HV battery cover trim piece.

    the DC-DC will also have to be relocated.
    it will likely be mounted vertically against the rear wall of the battery box.

    i guess we will see how it all turns out tomorrow once i start the install.

    Jason.
     
  4. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    1,146
    403
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Maybe ditch the box and use the open air architecture of the latest version of the Enginer kit. The open air architecture will allow the DC converter to stay cooler and not have a thermal shutdown, specially in summer.
     
  5. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    that's another possibility too i guess.

    we will investigate the options tomorrow once the parts of the old kit are removed.

    Jason
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    90,528
    40,653
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    looks like a fun project. i'll be watching to see how you make out, all the best!(y)
     
  7. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Just got through with Day 1.

    Lots of progress made today.
    Once I get home and can upload the pictures, I will update again.

    Very happy with today's effort.
    There was more fabrication than we had factored in, and this is the main reason it's not completed already.

    I'm posting this using my phone.

    Jason.
     
    Prius_Cub likes this.
  8. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    so, the story of today begins at around 10am, when i arrive at Vincent's place in Woolongong, some 1 and a half hours drive from home.

    we start by making a bunch of measurements and making lots of notes on what parts will still be needed.
    with list in hand, we run off to the local hardware store and local electronics retailer for the required parts.

    we returned and started the removal process.

    [​IMG]

    Before picture...

    with the box removed, we mounted the charger in the wheel well. it clears the bottom of the box by a few centimeters.

    [​IMG]



    while at the electronics retailer, i picked up a 240V cage type blower to use as cooling for the charger.

    [​IMG]

    the cage fan.
    this will be running whenever the charger is connected to the mains AC power.

    Vincent then took a bunch of measurements from the fan and the charger, and drew up a model of a mounting bracket on his CNC program.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    CNC machine....





    [​IMG]

    the finished bracket.

    [​IMG]

    fan bolted onto the charger

    [​IMG]


    with the no longer needed parts of the enginer kit removed, we test fitted a few of the cells to check for the height requirement.

    [​IMG]


    then we started to try to work out where all the new parts would go.

    [​IMG]


    having now decided on the location for the components...


    [​IMG]


    we now started work on the battery hold down system...

    [​IMG]


    all cells are now sitting in place.
    not bolted in yet though...

    [​IMG]


    so, this is as far as we got today before running out of daylight.

    will be finishing up Monday. still to do is wire up the cells, install interconnects and cell modules,
    finish the BMS wiring and complete the cell hold down system.

    the DC-DC converter will be staying in it's current position. no need to move it.
    the enginer box will be about 40mm higher than stock once it's all completed.

    there will be a 4.5mm sheet of polycarbonate between the batteries and the metal lid of the box.

    i will update with the rest of the install, and report back on how it's performing also.

    Jason.
     
  9. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    1,146
    403
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for the photos. The cells fit really well. Maybe modify the box lid so that the cells are not covered by the metal lid. Maybe move the lid hinge after the cells.

    I was wondering why you are using a contactor when the DC converter two wire cable can be used to switch the DC converter on and off for the LVC signal. In any case the DC Comverte will switch off when the input volts is low enough anyway. Looking good so far.
     
  10. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    We had to use the contactor, as the DC-DC needs a NO type contact for it to be on.
    The contactor that I have is NC when the BMS is on.

    So I figured that we should just use the contactor to switch the DC -DC on and off.

    Once it's completed, the lid of the box will be bolted down.
    There will be no hinged lid.

    Jason.
     
  11. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    ive been doing some thinking about the use of the contactor.

    im now wondering if i will also need a precharge circuit ?
    to prevent arcing inside the contactor... and the potential for contact welding that exists if there are large inrush currents.

    has anyone connected the DC-DC converter directly to a battery pack in order to see if there is a large inrush current present ? if there's a large spark when making the connection, there is inrush current. is no sparking, or minimal, then there is probably not.

    another way we can test this is to place a meter in series and try to measure the current at start up...

    will report back tomorrow once i know what's happening.

    Jason.
     
  12. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    4,374
    305
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    nice job on the CNC
     
  13. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    1,146
    403
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Are you planning on using the contactor to bypass the Prius current sensor?

    If not then you only need a relay to switch off the DC Comverter for the LVC event. The two wire lead from the DC Converter is on the low power electronics side.

    In any case 16 amps is the most current you will see come out of the DC Converter.
     
    2007blueprius likes this.
  14. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    461
    30
    0
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    please elaborate, I am looking into integrating my bms into this system, I kindof figured the 2 wire is used to shutoff the discharge, but unsure on the details, so far we figured the discharge is cut when the bms shorts those wires,kindof pricy stuff to guess and experiment on, my bms has a 12v lvc alarm can either drive a relay or a buzzer, so how do I go about this?
    I was going to canibalize the bms16d and steal the relay and plug and wire it to my bms, in theory should work but if I mess up it will get expensive or render the whole kit worthless
     
  15. Jason in OZ

    Jason in OZ Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    271
    112
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    were using the contactor in my system to disconnect the pack from the input side of the DC-DC converter. not the output side. so the loads will be about 80A at maximum.

    im not worried about the disconnect part. it's the connect function.
    if there are large inrush currents at power on, it could in theory weld the contacts shut on the contactor...

    Jason.
     
  16. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    461
    30
    0
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    you are overcomplicating things with that contactor, I saw your posts on the other thread about the 2 wire, that should be the way to go, I can't work on mine yet, aparantly lopez knows something about it
     
  17. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    1,146
    403
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi Jason,

    The converter shut down is very simple. The relay in the BMS16D closes the contact when the cell is under 2.5V. This is done via the two wire cable. This info was supplied to me by Jack Chenny of Enginer, took me a while to find it.

    LVC - Low voltage cut out. This happens when any one cell falls to 2.5volts. This signal is used to shutdown the DC Converter. This is done using the two wire cable/plug from the DC Converter.
    So all you need to do is wire the two wire cable from the DC Converter to a normally open contact of a 12v relay. Ditch the plug. Then wire the 12v relay coil to your EV power BMS.


    The BMS16D is the Enginer BMS but Nilco2 probably change the label to something else.
     
    2007blueprius likes this.
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    90,528
    40,653
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    looking good! i like the mini cnc as well. (y)
     
  19. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    461
    30
    0
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    d
    man where were you a month ago, so shorting those wires shuts the converter off? that simple?
    we kindof figured that picking up info here and there it is good to have you confirm it, I was about to experiment with it, kindof expensive and hard to come by those converters to tinker without a schematic and reverse enginer stuff, I wonder if the bms 16 d relay is 12 v, my bms has a 12v output for an lvc alarm, I almoast want to canibalize the original bms for that relay, and plug ( you might need to disconect it at some point ) and wire it to my new bms lvc alarm, does that sound like a plan?
     
  20. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    1,146
    403
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    The Enginer BMS uses a small PCB relay for the LVC. The large relay is for the HVC to stop charging. You will need to trace the PCB tracks to find the LVC relay. A warning - Enginer electronic components have known to fail so stay away from them. I would just buy a small 12Vdc relay from Jaycar which is easy to wire to.
     
Loading...