Enginer PHEV Test Pilots: Mpg reports and important data

To make things more confusing for everyone, Enginer has said that the new systems that are being delivered (beginning late February) are different than the previous versions when it comes to overcharge protection.

So now as we move forward, people will need to differentiate as to what version of the Enginer system/motcell batteries they have.

Jack has said that as of the late February shipments "overcharge protection circuit built-in in the Mottcell battery module. "

Time will tell.

 

I've been out of commission for a while struggling with bad cells and defective chargers and converters. The problems seemed to multiply so I took a trip to Jack's to see if there was a fix. He took my system out and shipped me a new system with batteries already mounted. Since the wiring was already installed, I simply took the box and placed it in the trunk and hooked it up. This new system came with a 5000W converter. This new converter doesn't get nearly as hot as the former 3000W converter so I am assuming it is more efficient. I am still waiting for the balancers from the factory that will balance all cells. I am currently monitoring cell voltages after charge and discharge with a CellLog monitor.

Short report: I can easily go 20 miles now with my 4 KW system. I don't want to push the system much until I get the balancers. My mileage (calculated) for the last 8 trips have all exceeded 100 (highest was 149). The displayed mileage is 99.3. When it gets to 99.9 I will have to either start driving normally or wait till my next fill to get real numbers or buy a Scan Gauge. My Graham Ecrostech scanner doesn't show mileage although it does show SOC and load. That way if SOC falls below 56.5, I will slow down so the battery can catch up. (At 55.5 SOC, the ice starts). Maintaining 30 mph on electric is no longer a problem. My main problem is keeping ice temps greater than 70. Once temps go below 60C, just a very slight load will turn on the ice and it won't stop until it gets to 70. An engine block heater will probably be my next purchase to eliminate the precipitous drop in mileage for the first 2 miles.

Things are looking good for me now. What a thrill to be able to drive in EV mode.

 

Wow 5000Watt would mean that I would only need one converter to keep my electric mode going. Can you take a picture of the converter and post it along with the converter in the steal box? I am wondering if it is the same size and fit as the older 3000Watt converters.

Thanks,
Chan

 

We recently installed an 8kwh kit that had a 5000w converter.

I do not have a picture handy but I can tell you that the hold down holes for the 5000w matched those of a 3000w converter. Similar form factor, but the overall shape is more rectangular with a flat top instead of curved.

The wires on the input and output are slightly different than the 3000w.

 

Nice. I am currently running two 3000Watt converters with 8kwh kit. Been going pretty well but the case does note close all the way with two converters. Maybe I should email jack about a trade.

 

If you are thinking about a swap, another consideration is how the converter matches up to the side of the box. The new boxes have custom holes for specific parts of the converter to mate up against. For instance where the fan is located and the phone cable goes through. I think that it may involve some cutting or grinding of the side of the box so that everything matches up. Not a big deal but just something to know.

Also, as I mentioned, the input side wiring is a bit different so it may involve some custom wires to make everything come together properly. As you know, the 3000w converter has two hold down screws that bare/soldered wires stick into. The 5000w converters have two wires that are attached inside the converter and terminate with an Anderson connector. So, for the input side you'd have to get your existing set up to match up to the converter's Anderson connector.

 

BMS circuit differences

My system was installed in December 2009. It has these BMS modules, which, in addition to the basic overcharge protection, have a signal wire that opens if the voltage drops below 2.5v or rises above 4.2v.

In my Enginer unit, these signal wires are all connected in series with a small relay that is connected to a 48v to 12v converter. The small relay drives a large relay that disconnects the battery pack if there is a problem (but leaves it connected to the 12v converter).

In mid-February, the out-of-voltage-range circuits on two of these modules failed, disabling the PHEV. 3ProngPower diagnosed the system and replaced the bad units. It is still unknown why the modules failed, but I suspect the small relay caused the optoisolator on the modules to fail. The small relay was replaced as well, and the system has been working since then.

These are about the simplest BMS module you can get. They don't really "balance", because each one only monitors one battery's voltage. They are more accurately described as an overcharge protection circuit (with an additional out-of-voltage-range circuit).

 

Re: BMS circuit differences

I'm curious--is this the same over-protection system that is now shipping with the new Enginer systems or is this some after-market thing that 3prongpower installed for you?

Andrew

 

Re: BMS circuit differences

No, it's a circuit developed and built by 3prongpower.

I'm now using the same circuit in my vehicle. I'll also be installing this circuit in all of my customers vehicles. It works really well!

 

Re: BMS circuit differences

The circuit 3ProngPower designed is composed the following off-the-shelf modules:

• 16 BMS modules, designed and built by EV Works in Australia;
• A 48-to-12 volt power supply;
• A automotive (12v) relay;
• A "Power Contactor" (a high-current relay)

The power contactor is placed in the negative lead, with the charger and HV converter on one side, and the battery pack and 18v-12v supply on the other.

I'm still not clear on why they designed this system. Did Enginer originally ship the kits without a BMS? Or did the BMS have problems? Or was it unnecessarily complicated or expensive? The Autocad drawing that 3ProngPower sent me is dated 1/12/10.

After 4 months of daily driving, the system is working fine, after the problem mentioned above, which happened in February. There was also a bad solder connection where the 48v-12v supply connected to the 48v positive lead, but I'm not sure of that was the cause or just something else that came up when I moved the wires around to diagnose the problem.

 

I have a 4kWh system that I received on Friday. It does not have any balancers, they are expected to ship in 2 weeks. Perhaps this is why 3 Prong Power is using a different BMS?

 

wellput swing shift. I really want plug and play with little or no throwing of switches. By the way 40 to 42 seems low to me I have no trouble gettig 48 to fifty with some pulse and glide in this extremly hilly country. My trips are about 5 miles each as I live between to small towns. ocassionally 20 miles to wally world where fe goes to 51 or 52. Not sure if 2kw would benifit me or not Don

 

Re: BMS circuit differences

Originally manufactured in Australia for a local EV association and also available elsewhere like eBay for about $340.00 with extra buss bars.

 

Hey Everyone,

I am back; it's been awhile. I haven't used my kit in a two months or so, temperatures were kind of in the 80's. How is everyone dealing with the heat? I am on my third 3000watt converter, and this one is rated at 245V output. It is one bad mofo, and I don't want it to fry due to the heat. I was getting 5-8mpgs improvement. Have charged it 127 times. Again, anybody having problems with the heat? I just used it today for 5 minutes and it was hot enough to cook an egg, really. Temps were in the 90s. I think I am going to remove the case and put the whole kit on the lid, so that the air is well circulated. TTYL.

 

Interesting. I have a 2G 2007 outside Ft. Lauderdale. I have a newest gen 4 kWh with a 5000 watt dc boost converter and the blue duct leading to the rear quarter panel vent.

It *might* drop to 83oF at night if we are lucky. Days are running 93 under a roof and substantially higher in the sun.

Heat is a huge issue. The first aspect of the heat relates solely to the Prius HV battery. Forced EV is shut down when the battery hits 114. An 81 degree night will start my HV in the morning at 95 degrees. Any major golf cart-ing will drive the temp of the HV over 114. If I leave the car parked outside after hitting 114, the HV is at 127 within minutes. I really haven't characterized all the hits the car takes when any of these thresholds are met, but by the time it's 127, there is no way I can coax the car into EV mode at all. I assume EV functionality and optimum power balancing between the HV and the ICE is lost at various software thresholds moving upward from the forced EV mode lockout up to the 127 which doesn't allow ANY non-ICE running of the vehicle.

That being said, it is sometimes difficult to assess where the PHEV is having problems and where the core Prius is having issues.

I guess I only have about 60% availability of the PHEV this time of year as the 5 kW converter is always shutting down due to heat. I know this because all the lights are on, there's plenty of charge, the converter fans run, but there is ZERO current off it. A few minutes after running, I've probed around with a thermocouple inside the boost converter case and found local temperatures as high as 160oF. My experience is that if I can actually find a hot spot such as that with a hand probe, if I had thermal imaging equipment I'd finds spots over 200oF.

This can't be good.

Thus far, I haven't killed a DC converter. But, it's bound to happen.

Also, on one particularly sultry day that I was flicking the PHEV switch on and off to determine if the lack of current was due to a thermal shutdown or because of a high HV battery voltage by comparing my scangauge current reading with and without the PHEV, the switch started to smoke heavily. This was with the AC at 75 degrees on auto.

I'm working on installing a 48 volt 200 watt peltier air conditioning block above the tire compartment to see if I can lengthen the operating time by lowering the operating temperature of either the DC converter or the HV battery.

 

A Peltier element at that rating will NOT do to much and will waste a lot of usable electricity for the DC-DC conversion.
Successfully cooling will be possible with forced cross ventilation with a blower similar to the one used by the Prius's HV battery assembly blast of CFM's.

 

This Peltier has 3 huge fans moving the heat onto the Peltier on one side and off it on the other. And, it moves about 200 watts.

It probably has the same overall efficiency going from House AC to PHEV to Peltier as if I ran the A/C which goes from Gas to HV to A/C or HOUSE AC to PHEV to HV to AC.

You may be right, though.

 

I had one inmy 2005 but wrecked it. Need to get another as I was not able to remove one from the wreck( would not come out) It works fine and even helps in warm weather Don

 

Did insurance cover the system?

 

No ins does not differentiate all added items to a car. At least I don't think so. Maybe I should have listed ebh and yellow top battery