Enough of George W's War

Ahh.. that's easy.

1. bush
2. National Elections
3. Neo-conism

 

Interesting points. But the guy's a physicist. Speaking as a physicist, I can tell you that most of us know very little about structural engineering. And a lot of his points seem similar to the ones made at the other site: "well, it looks like this other phenomenon we know something about, so it must be related to that." Interesting points, but not convincing. You got anything from some sort of structural engineer?

 

I would refer you to our Founding Fathers belief in a separation of religion from state. Any time a religion or any entity similar to that, it provides for a dangerous environment that can breed trouble for all.

It is also rare for one country to have only one religion. Domination of one religion over another is also not desirable in my opinion.

 

Thank u Jared2 for posting that link. VERY informative. More so than our govt. "officials" have put forth. I for one believe the conspiracy.

Why is it so hard to believe the unbeliveable? There is ALOT going on that is not mainstream.

Bigger question is: what the #$@! do we do next?

 

I guess I'd just be interested in knowing why someone would plant charges in the WTC buildings to implode them? And why would they choose to do this right when planes crashed into the buildings? Or do you believe that the planes weren't hijacked by terrorists?

I think that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. I don't completely dismiss the idea entirely that the buildings were intentionally destroyed by explosives, but it just seems so out of left field for me. Why would someone do this? In the absence of a clear, well-established motivation and any significant evidence, I think the most responsible thing is to believe "the majority opinion." The majority isn't always right, but these theories seem so outlandish that I think that they require extraordinary proof to believe.

I guess I'm also biased by the fact that a lot of these arguments have the same tone and "feel" to them as those from people suggesting we never landed on the Moon. It's just a level of paranoia and discussion about things that "they" don't want you to know that I find a little much.

 

Let's see. We got rid of a secular despot and replaced him with warring sectarian militias. When the dust settles, if it does, Iraq will be ruled by the Shite mullahs, just as its neighbor, Iran.

Here are some excerpts from an excellent Op-Ed piece by Adam Shatz, literary editor of the Nation:

 

This was well said:

"They" don't run candidates. Party nominations are earned through the Primary Election. In many states, the people who choose the Democratic nominee don't have to be Democrats, they can choose what party they want to vote for at the election (and Republicans...). Other states you can pick your party before the election.

The message we sent to Iran was "regardless if you have WMDs or not, we may attack you, like we did Iraq." It's believed Hussein talked tough, pretended to have weapons he didn't and kicked out the inspectors since he didn't want his arch-enemy, Iran, to know he didn't have any weapons. Doh!

Where does that leave Iran? If they have no WMDs, they can get attacked like Iraq. What is the penalty for WMDs if you get attacked regardless? The only way to avoid it is to be too strong to easily attack, like North Korea. This is a major foreign policy failure.

Los Angeles Times
(click here for the complete article)

Again I say all the negativity gloom & doom our wonderful media uses to brainwash the weak minded... (alot of our nation thrives on Gloom & Doom. It makes their day so to speak).

The influence of the media has always been profound (can you say Spanish-American war?) And it's that ever present influence of the media we deal with today (when I say media I mean news, TV shows, movies, music, the Internet) that has contributed to one of the greatest problems our society has. We are totally desensitized and jaded. The lines between right and wrong are so blurred nowadays that we don't even know where to draw the line in the first place. I compare it to the Roman Empire. Rome ruled the world and yet in the end it was Rome's appetite for excess that eventually contributed to it's downfall. Everything has to be more shocking, more perverse, more horrific in order to even get a reaction from the American public. We are so apathetic about things that should outrage us. The things that flourish on the Internet that are so disgusting...you can tell me all day that someone has the first ammendment right to look at child pornography and I'm still going to tell you that it's wrong and it encourages sexual crimes against children. You can give me whatever "free speech" crap you want and it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. With free love came lack of personal responsibility. Yeah, I know things happen, but abortion shouldn't simply be a means of birth control for Americans who must live in a vacuum and don't realize that they found out what causes unwanted pregnancy and THERE'S ABOUT A MILLION WAYS TO AVOID IT! A welfare system that's out of control and often rewards irresponsible behavior.... it's sad that the money you can make on welfare is more than many people can make working at many jobs. (but that's a whole other argument). Americans should be sick of so many of their citizens whining and saying "it's not MY fault and you OWE me." I know I'm digresssing but people have to understand that until this country starts focusing on the good things in life...until we start redefining and acknowledging that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD...until we stop believing everything we hear on TV and read on the Internet...until we draw the line here in our own backyard...it makes it hard for us to take the moral high ground with the rest of the world. If we're going to encourage the rest of the world to be more like us, then we need to set an example worth following.

I have retracted (Edited) my first post to the one above..

It is also rare for one country to have only one religion. Domination of one religion over another is also not desirable in my opinion.

isnt that what the Muslims want one religion?

 

"We would be looked upon as weak having an elected female in office.. "

Uggh. More ignorance.

Ask Arabs if Israel was viewed as week during Gold Meir's tenure
Or to compare Margaret Thatcher to Brit PM's since.

Heck, even cursory inspection of the shrub's admin reveals that the agressive neo-con is Rice. Ask arabs if they think otherwise.

 

They have all been responded to....

 

I thought that this was what the Religious Right wants.

 

Wow, whoever pointed to the BYU article was really reaching. It is amazing how that person (and apparently you) will over look the basics and the obvious in order to be able to run with the remainder of the thought.

Did GWBush plant explosives in the building by himself, or who is doing that? Did he set off those charges himself, or does he have a tight knit gang of covert opps? Did they plant explosives in all the buildings, or just happen to get lucky and put them in the ones that are getting hit by arabs who hijacked airplanes and flew into them.

If you believe that article or any part of it, you don't want to know truth or reality. Lucky for you, this is a free country and you are not required to adhere to either.


My only other point is this: Most on this thread are just plain weak people. If you bump a little on the left, move to the right a hair. You certainly wouldn't want to take a tough road to continue on the path that you were on. Sacrifice principals, honor, integrity, promise, sacrifice everything to not have to stand up for anything. If we close our eyes, maybe... just maybe the bad things will go away. If they don't go away, we can find another way to not deal with them when they come back to get us again. You are weak.

Turn... run...

I'm with Dubya... It's not his war... it's America's war. America is mine, and I'm with him on this thing.

 

I know you are "right wing", and I respect that. But I wanted to give you a different perspective on some of the things you are saying. I'm not nearly as "left-wing" as people who read my posts will assume, but I beleive the Republican leadership (which, fortunately, a lot of Republicans are now starting to question), is leading this country down a path of no return. I don't really see an answer with the Democratic party, but it has reached the point that virtually anything would be better than what we have. At least a democratic congress and a Repub. president, or vice versa would give us back some balance.

 

Ref thread title and OP. I want to end ALL wars. I can't. We can't. It is the human condition. War is terrible. I wish we could end even the "justified" wars.

So, in lieu of that, I want us to do the best we can, where we can, when we can to end human suffering and to plant the seeds of freedom to which ALL humans have a right to pursue.

God bless all who seek that goal.

 

My reply may lead to unnecessary confrontational debate, as we might be on the opposite spectrum of indoctrination, I'll try to engage anyway and rebut to your questions surrounding some of the "alleged paradigms" or "factual representations".

You have to define "them" more clearly as I'm not sure exactly whom you might have in mind as 'them'. If you mean terrorists (not the insurgents), than like I stated before we desperately need to expand on the CIA role in the pursuit, intelligence gathering and re-prioritizing special forces to face new challenges, education as primary step; it's a pity that the day after 9/11 we had only a dozen of arabic speakers in Pentagon. Shame on us and our complacency and ineptitude. Dealing with terrorism it's not only a matter of blowing up the the targets, it requires more than straight forward combat on the part of the civilized societies unless one has a propensity for militaristic bullying, subjugating and bringing other societies to submission by force alone. Again, I doubt our founding fathers would resort to those tactics.

No, I'm against any proliferation of nuclear weapons, that includes Iran. We don't know if Iran has capability of making a bomb yet, they may try it and accomplish it, if so Israel will take care of it before we could even make a statement about it. Leave it to them it's their close proximity and their survival priority, and they surly know how to avoid a ****-up. I'd rather have them deal with Iran then us, if such scenario even surfaces. Until then let's wait, unless one has to see action and preemptively bombs countries that may or may not pose nuclear capabilities.

"He who lives by the sword dies by the sword" allegorical pragmatism should make one think, if only for a few seconds - respect to those who prescribe to such virtue.

I concur, safety is the essence.

 

You're scaring me...

 

The problem with this war is that we are so afraid were going to hurt feelings. We should kill the enemy anywhere and at our time of choosing. We should walk softly and carry a big stick. We should stop much of this foreign aide (feed the little kids so they can grow up and hate and kill Americans?).

I voted for Bush but he has blown it. I thought since he was lame duck he would take action and get it over-with. He has allowed it to drag on and is not seeking the bad guys down and killing them (in any country). No one is afraid of the US because they know we are a push-over so they continue to dump on us.

 

I think you are just horse crap