Enough with the Religo-politico Arguments

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Priapus, May 31, 2006.

  1. Priapus

    Priapus Alter Ego

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    This is just a personal observation I've made over the past few months. I don't pay attention to names most of the time since I'm usually just skimming the boards, so even if I wanted to call someone out, I couldn't. I'm pretty sure, however, that "you know who you are."

    In my opinion, the number of threads started purely for the purpose of arguing politics and/or religion is increasing. That's not even that much of a big deal since we welcome a diversity of topics and intellectual debates in the Priuschat community - that's what makes it a community and not just another car forum. But what I've noticed is that some threads have been started with the direct intention of ticking someone off. Of even worse, someone will hijack otherwise innocuous threads and pull them into the politics/religion mud never to return. The original poster of some of these threads never mentions religion/politics and yet five replies into the discussion, someone is arguing about how the Bush administration is using a religious agenda to perpetuate the over inflation of Prius tires to take our minds off global atrocities. This is promptly rebutted with the point that the soulless and agnostic democrats are promoting the installation of more left-turn lanes to help people go to the left more easily. Even when some try to get back on topic, the people argue around them. Enough already. I'll let you in on a secret: you're both right in your own minds; the more you try to convince the other person, the more solid is their reserve; you will not win to to a point you consider satisfaction.

    Every so often someone mentions that what brings them back to Priuschat is the openness, the discussions, the information, and the comradely. That's what keeps me here, no doubt. I admit that when I'm away for even a few days I actually start to wonder what some of my internet friends are up to. But sometimes another new poster might mention that they are overwhelmed by the political/religious arguments. Likewise, sometimes when I return after a few days to catch up, glad to be back, I'm dismayed and likewise annoyed.

    As I've said, I'm not opposed to open and intellectual debates. Personal attacks are just plain wrong and hijacking someone else's thread is down-right rude. In my Priapus persona, I'm posting not as a Moderator but as a member hoping that others just might agree with me and reply likewise.
     
  2. nyprius

    nyprius Member

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    I completely agree!

    Unfortunately there are a lot of angry, unhappy people in the world, including some Prius owners. They believe their unhappiness results from what others say and do. With this belief, they will remain forever angry and unhappy because they can't change others.

    I think we all do the best we can based on our worldviews. Sadly our society agrees on almost everything, but nevertheless fights a lot. For example, Republicans and Democrats mostly would agree our children should be our highest priority, peoples' basic rights should be protected, and everyone has a right to have a great life. If we agree on 95% of everything, inlcuding all the important stuff, why are we yelling so much? Perhaps because we're angry at ourselves and taking it out on others. We live in a society that constantly tells us we're not good enough. The implied message in the advertising that bombards us is -- none of us measures up. We are made to feel inadequate so that we'll buy something. I'm not suggesting this is the sole source of conflict in society, but it's a big part I believe.

    However, I suppose that's an issue for another forum. I read PC to learn interesting things about the car I love. I certainly don't like to see angry rhetoric. It's childish. We're modeling the most advanced form of transportation (actually motor vehichle transportation, walking would probably be more advanced). Why don't we also model the most advanced forms of communication!

    Like many Prius owners, I'm interested in sustainability and social issues. Buying a Prius is a lifestyle choice. I think discussing some of these things on PC in a mature way ought to be OK, though I mostly read things directly related to the Prius.
     
  3. Jim1eye

    Jim1eye Shaklee Ind Distributor

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    Tony,

    I couldn't agree with you more. Sadly, it is one of the reasons I've been skimming over Fred's HOP of late. I just don't enjoy the bickering, the Bush-bashing, the liberal bashing, the conservative bashing, the republican bashing, the democrat bashing, the Christian right bashing, the athiest/agnostic bashing, and I'm sure there is probably some moderate bashing going on in there somewhere.

    You eventually get the feel for the posters that have a sardonic wit and a good sense of humor, but there are some folks out there that downright scare me.
     
  4. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Priapus @ May 31 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]263349[/snapback]</div>
    Point well made!! That reminds me. You know who is opposed to open and intellectual debates???

    George W. Bush.

    Kidding! Only kidding! :)

    PriusChat has become addicted and I do look forward to exchanging ideas with both those on the left and right. It is almost a challenge to find common ground. We sometimes do it. It's rare though. Even though PriusChat might be slanted to the left, those on the right hold their ground and all of us represent America. I think we could all learn to be more civil to each other from time to time on this forum but sometimes we feel so passionate about an topic, we lose sight of that civility.
     
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 31 2006, 12:09 PM) [snapback]263419[/snapback]</div>

    I am still laughing - very funny. I would have mentioned that he has trouble participiating in debates given his inability to speak in public unscripted -- or scripted :lol:

    You truly are funny - and obviously a good man.
     
  6. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    --- Scoring ---

    Original Thread post: 1
    Legit Replies: 2

    Thread hijacked by Liberals to bash Bush posts: 2

    Not bad, this one made it all the way to the 4th post before it got ugly.
     
  7. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ May 31 2006, 12:51 PM) [snapback]263445[/snapback]</div>
    I dont want to assume that you counted me as a Bush Basher - but if you did, I am not. I voted for him twice and support his decision to invade Afghanistand AND Iraq. I was just poking fun at him for what everyone who has ever watched him speak in public knows - he is challanged in this arena.

    So I hope you included me in your legit replies, if not please do.
     
  8. imntacrook

    imntacrook New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jim1eye @ May 31 2006, 11:54 AM) [snapback]263408[/snapback]</div>
    Now this thread makes sense. I agree 100%
     
  9. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    In principle, I disagree with any call to "limit" topics. You don't like it, don't go there.

    But I agree that "hijacking" is an issue; however, the fault is not the hijackers' but the serial structure of the "threads" which are, as the name "thread" conveys, linear. We cannot easily see that the TRUE structure of a "thread" is much more tree-like with limbs and branches because the viewing portal limits us to traversing them in chronological sequence only. So it is easy to feel that a topic has gotten "hijacked" because 25 rapidfire exchanges make it difficult for any reader to scroll down through them to where the limb of original discussion picks up again.

    Now if the viewing portal showed a tree instead of a thread, so that anyone participating in the topic could instantly click on the branch of interest, I think the "hijacking" issue would disappear.

    I don't now if there's any chatboard software out there that does that, though.

    Anyway, I think complaining about "hijacking" or other discourtesies is, in the end, pointless. The most unruly and discourteous only shoot themselves in the feet, as more readers ultimately ignore them, so complaining about them only amounts to preaching to the choir.

    Mind, I dislike the courtesy I see intensely, and sometimes want to smack an offender into the next county - but in this electronic forum it's much easier to simply click around the transgressor and waste neither time nor emotional energy in something that in the end is trivial and banal.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  10. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ May 31 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]263477[/snapback]</div>
    That's the problem with Liberals. No more responsibility. It's never the fault of the individual; it's always the fault of the system. :lol:
     
  11. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ May 31 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]263477[/snapback]</div>
    I agree. Freedom of speech means the freedom to say things that someone, somewhere will find offensive. I do feel that posters should refrain from personal attacks, however. If anyone feels the need to launch a personal attack, send me an email and I will give it the attention it deserves. As for staying on topic - it is in the nature of conversation, especially in a group, for one subject to lead to another. It is called lateral thinking. And anyone here is free to make a topic on any subject at any time. Anyone is free to post or not to post at any time. Especially irritating are the people who say "and just what does Bush bashing have to do with the Prius?" If you want to obsess about a machine, the threads are there to do so. Personally, I find that my car goes perfectly and I have no further interest in it as long as it works. There are more important things to think about.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 31 2006, 02:01 PM) [snapback]263484[/snapback]</div>

    That's the great thing about Bush and the neo-cons. They take full resposiblity for leading the country into a pointless and obscene war, trashing the environment, tearing up the constitutional protections they ostensibly say we are fighting for and turning a budget surplus into the biggest deficit in history. Well done, guys!
     
  12. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid New Member

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    I disagree. For whomever wants to participate, we should have flame wars, spectacular personal attacks, semi-pornographic photoshopping wars, etc., basically 100% freedom... but that's just me.... :ph34r: problem is, too many people can't take that sort of thing.... :ph34r:
     
  13. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 31 2006, 02:32 PM) [snapback]263498[/snapback]</div>
    It would liven up the workplace.
    What do you mean "semi" pornographic? Lets go hard core! (That would leave 3 inch penis at a disadvantage, I'm afraid)
     
  14. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 31 2006, 02:11 PM) [snapback]263486[/snapback]</div>
    You never stop with your drivvel do you. Quick before all of your potential Constitutional rights (I dont think you are a US citizen yet are you ?) are destroyed and the temperature on the planet hits 125F, and our deficit hits 30 trillion dollars, and we fight to free other oppressed people (maybe we free Quebec next, do they have oil by the way?) go north to where you originate from before the Canadians build a wall to stop others from heading south. At this rate I might contribute some money to help them build it faster and some more to keep Canadian access to the web dial-up.

    I dont mind American citizens ripping my President, I personally do mind foreigners ripping him so vociferously.
     
  15. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 31 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]263501[/snapback]</div>
    Better get used to it :)
     
  16. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    You all really do waste no time do you?
    That's alright.

    If nothing else, you have proven my point for that I thank you.
     
  17. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 31 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]263501[/snapback]</div>
    It's "drivel":

    1. Spittle flowing from the mouth; slaver, dribblings. Now rare.
    ?c1325 Old Age ii. in Relig. Ant. II. 210 Moch me anueth, That my drivil druith. 1388 WYCLIF 1 Sam. xxi. 13 His drauelis [gloss that is, spotelis] flowiden doun. 14.. Voc. in Wr.-Wülcker 599 Orexis, drevel. 1570 LEVINS Manip. 125/43 Ye Driuil at nose, pus. 1586 WARNER Alb. Eng. IV. xx. (R.) He..clear'd the driuell from his beard. 1697 Phil. Trans. XX. 50 The Snivel or Drivel that comes from the Mouth of a Dog..when mad. 1789 M. MADAN Persius (1795) 54 note, The child..wet with drivel from the mouth.
    transf. 1780 J. T. DILLON Trav. Spain (1781) 211 Chequered with small hollow round grains..which I conceive are formed by bubbles of air..forming the drivel of the metal. [Cf. DRIVE v. 26c.]

    2. Idiotic utterance; silly nonsense; twaddle.
    1852 BLACKIE Study Lang. 2 As it begins with dreams, so it must end in drivel. 1860 W. COLLINS Wom. White III. 474 The most abject drivel that has ever degraded paper. 1884 J. SHARMAN Hist. Swearing i. 21 We may have thought..his words the drivel of idiotcy.

    3. Comb., as drivel-bib, a child's bib to intercept the drivelling.
    1831 CARLYLE Sart. Res. I. xi. (1872) 52 Did he, at one time, wear drivel-bibs, and live on spoon-meat?

    But thank you for confirming your semi-literacy. It goes very well with your inchoate world view.
     
  18. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    I feel that there is enough a difference between the generalized forms of liberal and conservative idealogies that there is very little hope for reconcilliation. One thing I don't understand is why some take criticisms and bashings of Bush so personally. IE it wouldn't make a bit of difference if you replaced Bush with the user name.
     
  19. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    Wow. It's really remarkable that a thread started to specifically suggest that we end the "thread hijacking," is hijacked. Well done, fellas.

    Back to the original topic, I half agree with you, Tony. I don't mind threads that purposely provoke; I think that, even if someone says something that I totally disagree with, it at least makes me think hard about why I think they're wrong (note that I differentiate this from any sort of personal attack). However, I do agree that thread hijacking is rude, counterproductive, and shows a lack of conversation skills.

    After all, in real life, if you walked into a room and two of your friends were talking about how disk brakes were better than drum brakes, it's not like you'd respond, "Well, you know what's worse than drum brakes?! George Bush!"
     
  20. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Well, so much for the call for civility. But thanks for trying, Tony.
     
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