1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Environmental News

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Ya know what's good? Decapitate a head of garlic, add olive oil and roast the thing until you can smell it. Squeeze out the cloves - they don't fight back. Umami made accessible. Raw garlic is but a regional treat tasting completely different.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,514
    7,976
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    No night time kiss for you
    ;)
    .
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    A vampire outs self
     
    Trollbait likes this.
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    26,987
    15,334
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    My physician thought I should try garlic to control my blood pressure:
    • Pills - no effect, A-B-A testing
    • cloves - no effect, except when I got out of the shower and had to take another one.
    Bob Wilson
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    26,987
    15,334
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    To drag us back: Cop28 is a farce rigged to fail, but there are other ways we can try to save the planet | George Monbiot | The Guardian

    Let’s face it: climate summits are broken. The delegates talk and talk, while Earth systems slide towards deadly tipping points. Since the climate negotiations began in 1992 more carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels has been released worldwide than in all preceding human history. This year is likely to set a new emissions record. They are talking us to oblivion.

    Throughout these Conference of the Parties (Cop) summits, fossil fuel lobbyists have swarmed the corridors and meeting rooms. It’s like allowing weapons manufacturers to dominate a peace conference. This year, the lobbyists outnumber all but one of the national delegations. And they’re not the only ones: Cop28 is also heaving with meat and livestock lobbyists and reps from other planet-trashing industries. What should be the most important summit on Earth is treated like a trade fair.

    It’s not surprising that the two decisive measures these negotiations should have delivered at the outset – agreements to leave fossil fuels in the ground and to end most livestock farming – have never featured in the final outcome of any Cop summit. Nor should we be astonished that these agreements favour non-solutions such as carbon capture and storage, whose sole purpose is to provide an excuse for inaction.
    . . .

    Putting the FOX in charge of the chicken coop has a long history. But there is a 'touch' of reality, many times cost-effective, efficient stuff has been over priced, unreliable, and over-sold. For example, meat substitute edible stuff.

    The way to make it work is economics. Improve the price-performance ratio of products and there won't be a problem reducing the man-made global warming gasses. For example, CO{2} refrigerant systems or even ammonium cycles.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,394
    48,774
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    garlic is one of the easiest plants we grow in the backyard, animals stay away
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,474
    11,112
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Cheap home storage batteries. Lead-acid is still the main go to in many parts.

    Depends on how much you know about the source for the common food poisoning bugs.

    Heard it is a good companion plant to roses.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,394
    48,774
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i might try that. every time i got a rose flower, it's gone in the morning. even the thorny stocks get eaten
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    22,759
    14,798
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Well, that discussion's gone in an enigmatic direction.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,474
    11,112
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Helps more with tiny pests and disease. Unless your aphids and slugs are huge.
    Roses Love Garlic: Here's Why - Birds and Blooms
    A big argument against using human manure for crops is concern of disease spread. Most of the pathogenic organisms that cause food poisoning come domestic animal manure that is used for fertilizer. E. coli doesn't end up on lettuce cause it decided to take a trip.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    On subject of human excreta, I recently saw this:

    Joseph Leconte, 1823-1901. Instructions for the Manufacture of Saltpetre

    A few years before US Civil War, Southerners were advised to get started making potassium nitrate as a cottage industry. Interesting history of this having been done in Europe.

    Interesting to read about times when microbiology was completely empirical.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Here are a few more links to history of this explosive subject:

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00732753211033159
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312372347_Saltpeter_A_Concise_History_and_the_Discovery_of_Dr_Ed_Polenske
    Saltpeter: The Mother of Gunpowder | Reviews in History
    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-14508-2_5

    Last two may require a trip to library. More than the usual copyright bypassing seems to be required :)

    ==
    In biogeochemistry, carbon gets most of the glory, but both nitrogen and phosphorous have particular charms.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    22,759
    14,798
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I have not equally loved every job that I have held, but I will say that none of them was nitre-taster.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Tokyo Haneda airport. A Japan Coast Guard Dash-8 may have overstepped its clearance and taxied onto runway. It was struck by a landing Airbus 350. Five CG personnel died. All pax and crew (N~400) on the other evacuated alive, with a few injuries. Videos of burning Airbus are plentiful.

    Until investigation is complete, discussions at pprune can be viewed.

    BTW Japan had a strong earthquake not so far away, and CG may have been in a hurry to deliver relief supplies.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    How to obtain meat taste and texture with fewer cows, pigs and other livestock with large environmental hoofprints?

    Meat proteins and fats can be grown in cell culture (still seems expensive and resistant to scaleup). Plant proteins and fats can be mixed from existing plant sources (vegeburgers and the like). Insects produce lots of proteins and fats, but their desirability as food sources are growing only slowly.

    Another way is to insert animal genes for proteins and fats into crop plant genomes. See for example:
    Moolec :: Science in food ingredients

    Other companies do this also. A current impediment is that grafting genomes of two unrelated (very distantly related) organisms makes a chimera, and that presents legislative hurdles. Also can be turned to public disfavor, see Island of Dr. Moreau.

    There are valid concerns about putting novel genomes 'out there', and they are being explored. Pollinators move things around and bacteria and viruses can do horizontal gene transfer. These could be described as vertical and horizontal sex, respectively. But I digress.

    One invalid concern is that eating gen-engineered whatever can modify a person's genome. For historical evidence, note that humans have been eating rice, wheat, carrots, chickens etc. for a very long time. Note that humans have not transformed into those things by consuming such DNA. Before agriculture, humans ate 'who knows?' what DNA and did not transform either. So, whatever Frankenburger you might eat won't Franken you up. It just doesn't happen. In fact humans consume only other species' DNA after weaning. Before which we are cannibals strictly speaking. But I digress.

    Now, moolecscience is working mainly with soy which is a sensible choice because its roots buddy up with particular bacteria to obtain nitrogen from the atmosphere. Getting this buddy system into other crops is a whole 'nother research objective, but that makes chimeras also. Back to Dr. Moreau's Island. (If you have not seen the movie, put it far down your watch list. Not a winner.) But I digress.

    The big picture is 8 billions we are, and 1 billion are not well nourished, and we need to do something about that.

    Conventional plant breeding continues. It is less comprehensive and much slower than genomic engineering, but at least it's not opposed (by anyone I can think of). Not enough oomph though I think.

    Tell carnivores to reduce meat intake by 90%? Go ahead, tell, and see how it goes. You won't be the first.

    OTOH, offer carnivores a good-enough alternative well-enough priced, and they will go sustainable by choice. Maybe get all cutesy like piggysoy, but I don't see it pushing the process along. I mean, sheesh.

    So, all you fine old cannibals, what's it gon na be?
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,394
    48,774
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    give it to the younger generations, but don't tell them
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    22,759
    14,798
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Pub here dropped their tasty black bean burger from the menu, replaced (for more money) with a Beyond™ burger.

    Which is also tasty, which does matter to me, and more like hoofed meat, which doesn't matter to me in the least. I liked the bean burgers. They weren't pretending to be something else.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,938
    3,487
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Beyond is mostly peas yes? Along with black beans, soy and peanuts, they are legumes. Leguminosae. All with N-fixing buddies. All sensible crops for plant source protein with or without porcine genes slotted in.

    Fell like I lectured on N fixation before. Legume roots make little chambers for pet bacteria. The N-fixing enzyme fails in presence of oxygen so plant roots also make a heme protein down there to transport oxygen away. It is suspiciously similar to heme protein animals use to carry oxygen around. I'm not saying horizontal gene transfer, but ...

    Legumes thus have high nitrogen in leaves and seeds; attractive to herbivores. So they also make distasteful (unto toxic) chemicals, which we must cook out.

    This is all so much fun! cooking over wood fires really changed things, way back when. When there were about 10 million humans, I'm sayin'