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Environmental News

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm always hopeful, and always doubtful ;)
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I posted link to decadal T @1258 on Jan 8. About that same day were released several climate-change documents by Office of Science Technology Policy. Executive Branch. I downloaded from drroyspencer.com

    One of them "Systematic Problems in the Four National Assessments of Climate Change Impacts on the US" contains a graph on page 3. It asserts a mismatch between models and measurements. To that figure I added the decadal surface temperatures from above, as horizontal green lines. Readers may conclude for them selves whether models match those measurements.

    OSTP 2021 add surface T.png
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    There is a global map for hydroxyl radical now, based on fancy remote sensing. I can add the link.

    This is important because hydroxyl radical concentrations control atmospheric lifetime of methane. Hydroxyl radical is 2 to 10 times higher in low-latitude than high latitude regions. Tropospheric mixing across latitudes is slow. I do not think there was an earlier map like this.

    So, low latitude methane (wetlands, rice, leaky pipes, leaky rocketry, etc.) will have shorter lifetime than high-latitude methane (melty permafrost, etc.). Shorter lifetime means less infrared absorption effect overall.

    I do not doubt that study authors are aware of this implication, but temptation to email them persists.
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Not intending to post every time some chunk falls into the sea. However, The California Coastal highway is rather famous and probably has been driven by many here:

    Huge piece of Highway 1 south of Big Sur falls into ocean

    Many stretches of this highway are susceptible to unusual rain events.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'and if california slides into the ocean,
    like the mystics and statistics say it will,
    i predict this motel will be standing, until i pay my bill'
     
  7. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    US1 at Big Sur is a very spectacular site off to the west and over the edge.
    The old song about James Dean and Dead Mans Curve was the first thing I thought about.
     
  8. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    I remember driving up Highway 1 in August of 1983 after the '82-'83 El Nino. Could only go as far as the Hearst Castle
    because of the washed out roadway. Had to detour to I-5 to get to Carmel and Monterey. Lots of washouts caused by that storm.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A young Marine, I drove along that stretch in 1972 prior to going to Okinawa. The poison oak was impressive especially three months later on Okinawa when I wore my civilian boots without socks. In Big Sur, wash daily with a good detergent soap and you'll be OK. But apparently some had gotten in my boots while I was wearing socks ... leaving a surprise three months later.

    Source: Republican lawmaker: Rocks tumbling into ocean causing sea level rise | Science | AAAS

    The Earth is not warming. The White Cliffs of Dover are tumbling into the sea and causing sea levels to rise. Global warming is helping grow the Antarctic ice sheet.

    Those are some of the skeptical assertions echoed by Republicans on the U.S. House of Representatives Science, Space and Technology Committee yesterday. ...

    Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) questioned Duffy on the factors that contribute to sea-level rise, pointing out that land subsidence plays a role, as well as human activity.

    Brooks then said that erosion plays a significant role in sea-level rise, which is not an idea embraced by mainstream climate researchers. He said the California coastline and the White Cliffs of Dover tumble into the sea every year, and that contributes to sea-level rise. He also said that silt washing into the ocean from the world's major rivers, including the Mississippi, the Amazon and the Nile, is contributing to sea-level rise.

    "Every time you have that soil or rock or whatever it is that is deposited into the seas, that forces the sea levels to rise, because now you have less space in those oceans, because the bottom is moving up," Brooks said.

    Dumb as the rocks Mo Brooks describes.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Now that right there is exactly why I keep trying to get people around here (like over in the EGR-and-head-gasket threads) to just take the next step and ask basic quantitative questions. Like, how much rock? How much volume is that? How much volume is how much level rise? (Or, "how much hotter? how hot is too hot for a gasket?" over in our own threads.)

    You can make pretty much anything sound truthy if you just completely avoid asking if it's even in the ballpark an explanation would need to be in.
     
  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Human causes of climate change. Are there any other relevant kinds? The hot air from he said she said?
    WHO said that?
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Earth's glacial cycle is the most important thing I can think of. Very important, and perhaps put on hold for as long as the anthropogenic CO2 boost persists. Probably the best bad thing about +CO2, until 'we' figure out how to use that most efficiently in agriculture.

    Sufficiently large volcano could dim things enough to matter for a decade or more. There are always big space rocks, of which very few are aimed well enough. Neither one yields easily to human intervention. Both stir the pot of biological evolution, but neither has clear benefits for The Dominant Species.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The problem is the lack of ‘feedstock’ of failed batteries. So the old trope that we are Bambi loving, leaf looking, rabid recyclers has prompted the false narrative we can be persuaded by ‘no recycling’ to buy an ICE vehicle is a fraud.

    When we get a trade-in credit for consumer batteries like the old soda bottles, I’ll change my mind. But in reality, we just toss the AAA and AA batteries in the trash bin. There is no credible battery recycling of consumer batteries so why should ‘eye candy’ announcements matter.

    Toyota used to pay a $200 trade in credit for a -$3,000+ Prius battery replacement at a dealer. Then Prius owners figured out how to survey and salvage working battery modules and resell for ~$1,750. Screw Toyota and their overpriced batteries.

    In about two decades, there will be enough feedstock with today’s cobalt batteries to make a small recycling effort profitable. But announcing one today is eye candy ... green wash for the foolish.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I've nothing to add to that :eek:

    On subject of old batteries I just read that ISS has completed its changeover to lithium. To run the expresso machine etc. while they are on 'the dark side'. It is unclear whether their retired NiMH batteries came down in recovered returned capsules, or were burned by atmospheric re entry.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Science not always explained well by 'the media':

    Why One Side of Earth Is Rapidly Getting Colder

    seeks to explain “Why One Side of Earth Is Rapidly Getting Colder Than the Other”

    But one side isn't and it's not rapid. Research cited:

    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/2020GL092119

    tells the actual story. That for 100s millions years, continental crust has most been on one side of Earth. It acts as a blanket and core (mantle) heat exits faster with less blanket. Difference is a small fraction of a watt per square meter, and I do not doubt Karlsen et al's work.

    However, as the net solar heat input to Earth surface is now multiple watts from the global blanket of infrared absorption in atmosphere, Karlsen's is relatively small. They do not claim otherwise. The effect is not seen in any surface-T global analysis.

    Reading this media report, one might suppose half of Earth surface is getting colder. One can only imagine how dedicated dissimulators could twist Karlsen. Popular Mechanics' Delbert has not done well here. Featured art is all clickbait and no reality.

    Much smaller complaints about "Earth has a red hot liquid interior" - This is iron (mostly) and 'red' means about 900 oC. Earth's core is >5000 oC and if you go take a look (please don't) it would more resemble sunlight color with lots of UV. Same paragraph implies 'spinning' has a role in 'generating gravity'. Flee my dears, flee! Save your neurons!

    Are real science writers too scarce for Popular Mechanics to employ?
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    disappointing, try 'popular science'?
     
  18. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    With the decline of paper media and the increase in entertainment value it has made it so well researched
    scholarly articles
    are not a method of being gainfully employed

    The low value assigned to research quality media drives low paid individuals to do the writing and it has to be exciting writing to boot.
     
  19. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    So Sad, always inside a box with $ signs either at the top or the bottom side.

    With so much (too much) data available for free at the flick of one finger
    there's not much time to wonder about how much data there might be that's not available
    and what that info might be.

    Is the earths core one molten blob or does it actually have two or more layers that may or may not spin in opposite or other directions from each other layer.

    Is that earth shattering new?
     
    #1279 vvillovv, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I know of an science author that writes sometimes for Pop Mechanics.
    Has fantastic science aptitude and can be good, but sometimes has a personal agenda/tendency to transcend reality on the topic and in those cases, will slant the article. Not talking about climate change issue. I believe the person knows truth vs. fantasy and can represent facts well if they want to. At some point credibility is lost if the fantasy/political spin side is harped too much (books etc)..
     
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