EPA 51 - 60...NOT!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by fphinney, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. fphinney

    fphinney Member

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    • "I used to tell people, 'let's look at realistic numbers, because I think whoever put up these numbers did it on a test track with a sail behind them,' " Peck said.

     
  2. miwaku

    miwaku New Member

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    Hey, just because these guys can't achieve the EPA numbers doesn't mean no one else can. I happen to know at least 20 people off the top of my head who average well over the EPA numbers, so I just consider articles like this to be sour grapes.
     
  3. Jeannie

    Jeannie Proud Prius Granny

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    Well, I'm definitely not one of those people who beat the EPA estimated MPG in my Prius, and I doubt I've ever beaten the estimates in any of my previous cars. But I never expected to because the tests were under artificial conditions.

    It's probably a good thing that the EPA is revising their tests to simulate more 'real time' conditions. So when the 2008 Prius sticker shows lower numbers, they might be closer to my own experience. But it's not as if the new EPA numbers are going to change my OWN mileage!

    The numbers that the EPA now shows are useful as a relative comparison - when I was test-driving new cars last April, I tried a lot of different cars and chose the Prius because I liked the features of the car, and the EPA mileage estimate was probably the least important factor in my choice.
     
  4. FishHawk

    FishHawk New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jeannie @ Dec 13 2006, 07:44 AM) [snapback]361401[/snapback]</div>
    I would like to know how someone is getting consistent over 60mpg and how long are those trips?
    I'm getting about 45 in the city and 49 on the highway. This still is not too bad. FishHawk
     
  5. Essayons

    Essayons Essayons

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    I get around 54mpg on the highway with the AC on, but around town it is hard to say what I get...I would say 48 or so. I stop and go traffic I seem to have a lot of 100mpg bars on the MFD so your guess is as good as mine.
     
  6. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    The EPA estimated my Prius's mileage city/hwy as 60/51. I get 55/48. No complaints here, this car is much closer to getting the EPA estimates than any other vehicle I've owned. I have trouble with them wanting to deduct 20 or 30 percent off those estimates for hybrids. But since an E85 Tahoe is now considered as getting 33MPG for CAFE purposes, none of this should be too surprising.
     
  7. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    I estimate the average driver falls short of the current EPA by 20%, so if you come close to it, you are driving well.

    Even though I have a hard time adjusting to the metric system, it has an advantage. Instead of mpg - it's "liters per 100km" (for purposes of this discussion - think "gallons per 100 miles")

    When measuring in mpg, any changes in the fuel mizers (i.e. Prius) will stick out the most. If the new EPA chart was converted to l/100km - the hit on gas guzzlers such as the Dodge Ram would stand out.

    Say with the new estimates the Prius get a 10mpg hit, but the Dodge Ram get only a 2mpg drop. I guarantee you if we were talking "gallons per 100 miles" or "liters per 100km" it would be the Dodge Ram that would look bad in the comparision.


    If the EPA emphasised the annual cost of operation, that would also accentuate how badly gas guzzlers do, rather than gas mizers as they make their estimates closer to "the real world".

    P.S. - I suspect Detroit's emphasis on flex fuel vehicles is a cheap way to be pretending to be green. I'm not against flex-fuel - just the way it's being done.
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    DF, you don't want to see those gas guzzlers in L/100km lol.

    As stupid as L/100km may sound (vs. km/L), it has a one strong point. The number of litres used is more powerful than the distance it can travel.

    When you see a V8 SUV that's rated at 18-20 litres per 100km, that'll make you cringe compared to 4.0L/100km for the Prius (in Canada).

    Given that a compact car usually has a 50 litre tank, you can make comparisons such as "that V8 SUV travels 200km if it had a compact car fuel tank size" and that is horrible.
     
  9. narf

    narf Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Dec 13 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]361598[/snapback]</div>
    I've got to agree with you here. Even if we can never convince folks to go metric in the USA, we could use a number like Gallons/1000 miles. When you think about how many gallons you use instead of how far you go on a gallon it really hits home. A 50 MPG Prius uses 20 Gallons/1000miles. A 20 MPG SUV uses 50 Gallons/1000 miles.
     
  10. Rest

    Rest Active Member

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    Any vehicle can get the rated EPA estimate, if it's driven correctly. The problem is many people drive to waste fuel. Another thing people forget is that the EPA numbers are just an estimate and not a firm rating.
     
  11. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    Another important consideration in the average consumption number is that it's a weighted average number. Most people have no idea what that means but do understand the idea. I'd guess most here are more than familiar but to explain it to someone for whom Math is a foreign language is difficult.

    The prior EPA numbers of 51/60 with a combined number of 55 seems high but it was based on 45% City and 55% Hwy. Well I don't drive that combination. My personal combined number is 15% City and 85% Hwy for a combined number of 52+ mpg.

    During EPA conditions :lol: , meaning spring and summer and early fall I do get about 51+ mpg combined. But I often drive too fast on the Hwy and suffer the penalty accordingly. This reduces my theoretical EPA value from 52+ to 51+ mpg.

    Now factor in the winter penalty which in this area is about 12% for 1/3 of the year and there is another combined weighted average. Voila it ends up around 48+ mpg.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Dec 13 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]361598[/snapback]</div>

    It's the way Fuel Consumption should be reported for each vehicle and each driver. It puts the responsibility for consumption squarely in the spot light.
     
  12. Jeannie

    Jeannie Proud Prius Granny

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Dec 13 2006, 02:50 PM) [snapback]361764[/snapback]</div>
    I think I drive my Prius correctly, but the nature of my driving brings down the MPG - I have a 5 mile commute to and from work through suburban traffic, usually 15-20 minutes on roads that are mostly 35-40 MPH speed limits, with half a dozen stop lights and a couple of stop signs on the trip. I expect to put around 9000 miles on my Prius by the time I've had it for a year. I was gettting 48 or so MPG in the warmer weather, and that's dropped to the lower 40's now that it's colder, and that's because I take 'short trips'. I've beaten the EPA estimates on my 3 highway trips that were 250 miles each way.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Dec 13 2006, 02:16 PM) [snapback]361791[/snapback]</div>
    But that makes too much sense.

    QUANTITY consumed per standard DISTANCE is indeed the better method.

    Sadly though, our twisted system focuses on perceived savings rather than how much fuel was actually required. That most definitely favors a wasteful mindset. You believe less is being used. But in reality, how much was needed in the first place is completely overlooked.
     
  14. jmpenn

    jmpenn New Member

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    I have to say my milage is very close to EPA estimate. I've put a little over 9000 miles on my car since Memorial day weekend. I drive almost exclusively highway. It's 25 miles to work. 1.5 miles with 2 stop signs and two traffic lights until I hit the interstate, then onto other highways that have just as many lanes as the interstate. Another 1.5 miles at the end with two traffic lights and two stop signs (right of way, right turns on the way in). Right now I'm between 50 and 51 MPG. Winter is going to drop it and spring will raise it back up. I'll see where I am after a full year.
     
  15. Wiyosaya

    Wiyosaya Member

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    During the summer, I was getting approximately 54 MPG, I'm not sure what my winter mileage is yet, but I know it is lower. My MFD reads 42.7 at this time. The summer figure was mostly city driving, and my current MPG figure is under the same general conditions.

    With my previous car, a '94 Acura Integra, I always beat the EPA estimates. That was probably due mostly to the fact that I would try to be in high gear, i.e., 5th, at the lowest possible speeds. This meant that I was usually in 5th even when I was only driving 35 MPH.

    All the best,
    Matthew