EPA confused by Chevy Volt's fuel economy

Oh, the irony...

GM said EPA wasn't fair when it's test cycle favored Prius electric ability. So the EPA changed it.
Now, GM says the cycle isn't fair because it doesn't favor the VOLT's electric ability.....HA

So, lets be fair...I want to apply all the criticizm of the Prius, to the Volt...
and get GM response.......

How long will it take the VOLT to pay off it's premium?
How long will the VOLT battery last?
How much to replace the VOLT battery?
Dust to Dust, isn't the VOLT less efficient than a Hummer?
What will that BIG VOLT battery do to the environment when it's discarded?
Doesn't charging the VOLT battery use fossil fuel?
ETC....
ETC...

TIme to eat crow GM.

 

That's what I was thinking... is it a divide by zero error they got ??

 

That means Volt is only getting 37.3 miles EV range. If you add up all the EPA test cycles, the total distance is 43.93 miles. 85% is 37.3 miles.

 

The best way to compare ev's to hybrids to gas cars is$(cents)/mile. The problem is that this number won't necessarily indicate whether a vehicle is more "efficient" or gets"better" fuel economy. It is just a way to compare one vehicle to another on an equal footing. And as taxes are added to electricity to make up for the loss of fuel taxes the number cents/mile number will still allow for equal comparisons between vehicle.

 

The battery in a Volt will be hammered much more than the battery in a Prius..
They must have had a "leap" in battery technology for it to last any sensible (5+ years) length of time before replacing.

It'll make the rest of GM's fleet really look like the Dinosaurs they are.

I wonder if the ICE in a Volt will ever be able to charge the battery during normal useage ?

 

It's a bit old, and it doesn't come from GM directly, but using the numbers in this article, by my calculation, a trip in a Volt uses 53 mpg:

Detroit Auto Show: Chevrolet Volt Concept

It sounds like the EPA is on the right track. $40k for 53 mpg, and more traditional styling than the sexy concept sounds expensive, and I find myself wondering why a turbocharged engine?

 

This isn't a new problem. The UNECE standard for fuel efficiency measurement addressed this back in 2005.

For a vehicle like the Volt, the test would be run twice, once with a full battery in "use electric" mode, and once with an empty battery in "use fuel" mode (assuming it has any such mode selection). That gives two different consumption figures, as well as an electric range and electric consumption (in Wh/km). The two consumption figures are then weighted depending on the measured electric range to give an "average" consumption, based on an average 25km between recharges. (I think that's right, if somewhat simplified).

So you get 3 figures: "typical" fuel consumption, electric-only range, and electric-only consumption.

 

Cents / mile is beside the point. All energy sources are not equivalently priced per comparable unit of energy. What we need to compare is:
Well-to-wheel energy efficiency, IMO. E.g.,

Tesla Motors - well-to-wheel

 

Maybe they will rate it like this. And nobody will know what it means.

 

EPA is not confused. Volt is a hybrid.

Electric cars can not be driven while charging because the pack can either charge or discharge but not both at the same time. Ok, so Volt has an onboard range extender (gas engine). So when Volt runs out of battery, it should be pulled over and let the gas engine recharge the battery because there isn't a plug on the highway.

Well, that's not how Volt works. Volt can indeed drive when the gas engine is running. In this mode, Volt is powered by both gas engine and battery. GM claims that Volt is an electric car because it is only driven by the electric motor. The problem with that is, the electric motor get the power from both gas engine and the battery pack. This makes it a hybrid. If Volt wants to be an EV, it must be pulled over and recharge the battery.

Volt is actually a plugin hybrids. It has the same two modes as any other plug-in hybrid (including plugin Prius).

1) Charge Depletion mode (CD) - Runs off the battery until it reach minimum threshold.
2) Charge Sustained mode (CS) - Activate the combustion engine to maintain the minimum charge.

We need MPG for these two modes.

 

I have no faith in the EPA Hybrid ratings. Even when I drive like an idiot, I never get it below 35 MPG in my TCH, and highway rating from the EPA is 34 MPG. My real numbers are 38.5 over 10K miles, highway gets me 43-45 MPG. I get closer to the Prius EPA numbers than the Camry Hybrid EPA numbers. It will all boil down to how you drive it. If your daily trip is under 40 miles, you would do great, but if you have a trip like mine, 86 miles round trip, then you would use gas, and its those are numbers that are the most important, so they really need to get them right so those who drive beyond the battery limits would know those numbers, especially on a 40K + car. Thats some expensive beta testing if you ask me.

 

That is a little disappointing. The EPA test cycle is quite easy and relaxed driving.

I would like to see the traditional EPA rating with battery level equal begin and end, plus the MPGE rating which should be over 100mpg for the Volt both on the sticker. The more info the better.

Give me both numbers, DON'T AVERAGE THEM!

 

GM bash fest...if the Volt is vaporware, the deserve it. However, one would think that this site would follow the development of a PHEV with vigor...regardless of manufacturer. Toyota makes great products, and I've owned one for almost 14 years. But, what does bashing a competitor accomplish? I'm guessing...simple satisfaction of your wise purchase of a Prius, and/or revenge for bad experience with a GM product(s). Get over it.

If nothing else, the EPA appears to be active on developing the best method of rating PHEVs. Based on current info, adding the AER (all eletric range) to the city/highway mpg ratings may be the best approach. The main reason is to highlight that vehicle is different.

 

$40k for the Volt? And it's a small car. It won't sell much.

 

well for one gm complained about the epa test which got the prius' ratings lowered, but now its complaining about the new test they wanted for the prius. pure hypocrisy.

Secondly, the volt is so late to the party, and so expensive, it seems like another attempt to kill the concept of an electric car, by coming out with something most people wont want or cant afford, or are just scared away from.

 

The purpose of the EPA ratings is to inform the consumer.
The consumer wants to know:

1. How far can it go in Charge Depletion Mode (CDM)?
2. How much electricity does it use in CDM?
3. How much fuel does it use in CDM?
4. How much fuel does it use in Charge Sustain Mode (CSM)?

So the EPA rating for a car like the Volt should look somewhat like this, for example:

60CDM 25Kwh @ 200mpg / 48mpgCSM

Read: 60 miles on a charge of 25 Kilowatt hours at 200 mpg, and 48 mpg after the battery is depleted.

The EPA rating for the plug-in Prius might look somewhat like this:

30CDM 5Kwh @ 100mpg / 62mpgCSM

Read: 30 miles on a charge of 5 Kilowatt hours at 100 mpg, and 62 mpg after the battery is depleted.

 

GM is also counting on a plug in hybrid/electric car tax credit. Its likely that will happen and be $7500.

If the volt was under $30,000 (after tax credit) and delivered the numbers like promise (40 mile electric range/50mpg after) I would be interested.

 

First let me say...I agree that GM has made many mistakes. However, should the company be bashed for developing a PHEV? I suppose...some folks believe the Volt is vaporware. If so, I would hope that all of their development costs are not lost. As in the past, the disgruntled engineers that jump ship and 3rd party companies involved in the development can use the "lessons learned" for competitor products like the Prius. So I’ll cheer GM on…

You must agree that the new EPA results reflect the real world mpg for the Prius...and other vehicles. I would think that Toyota would want EPA tests to reflect the real world mpg. And as a car owner, I want the EPA ratings to reflect the real world values for ALL vehicles...including the Volt. Apparently some folks here believe GM is attempting to get an unfair "favorable" EPA rating. The PHEVs have 2 energy sources; so the EPA should include both in the ratings. While efficiency has been a primary tool of the EPA to protect our resources, efficiency of energy usage in terms of miles may not be the best value to highlight for the distance traveled using the electric energy source for a PHEV. Increasing the AER (all electric range) will be a goal of all manufacturers; so I propose that it is the best value to highlight with city/highway mpg rating of ICE usage only. Currently, electric propulsion is more efficient than an ICE. At such time that EVs are mainstream and the larger AER negates the need for an ICE, the focus could shift to the efficiency of the electric source.

AER - City/Highway

I hear you on the projected price of the Volt...a $40K+ small vehicle is not mainstream. Remember the first Prius got the same criticism in 1999-2000, but the Prius price was much closer to mainstream. The Volt is not a direct competitor to the Prius since the Prius is not a PHEV. GM does need a vehicle(s) to compete directly the Prius.

 

Real world? Who's world? My lifetime average beats the 2006 EPA rating. IMO enough underachievers whined so the EPA changed the test and lowered the numbers. Now beating the EPA is easy.

Of course GM is trying to manipulate the test so its product gets the best results. Imagine the backlash when GM introduces its revolutionary Volt built with the latest & greatest technology and its numbers are lower than a car that has been selling for 5+ years. (Buy a Volt. It's almost as good as a Prius but costs more for fewer features.)

For the Volt to be a competitor to the Prius it needs to be available for sale. If and when the Volt is manufactured you'll find PHEV Prius available from Toyota. You may not find any sitting on a dealer's lot just like the previous generations.

Driven properly Honda's old Insight can get way over 75mpg. Everyone has a long way to go.

The Prius may not have been mainstream but Toyota was able to sell all they could build to waiting lists.

 

I admire your passion for a great vehicle...the Prius. You also make an excellent point...the Volt is not for sale at this date and could never be built for sale. I do think that the Volt has a market...even if it is out of mainstream.

So, I choose to cheer for GM on the Volt development. And when Toyota reveals their PHEV...I'll cheer for them too, And no one has ever accused me of being a cheerleader.

As you know in a PHEV, no gas is needed for some of the miles (infinity mpg). Well, the Toyota PHEV design may be a little different if it is like the Hymotion design. Even if so...it still is a PHEV. Some of the energy is coming from the electric grid.

I'm looking for an auto industry that finds a profitable place for PHEVs.