Ethanol Restrictions Lifted

It's an active ingredient in SeaFoam......

 

Ethanol has to be transported long distances to a local gasoline blending depot.

Methanol can simply be converted from natural gas "methane" already available everywhere via pipeline.

 

Since E10 has been in the pumps here for years, I have no idea if my fuel mileage is better or worse. If they start pumping E15 here, maybe I'll know then.

 

My husband's friend who has another friend in Houston with the petroleum industry tells me that he recommends buying only vehicles that use regular gas and use only that grade.

The secret is that ethanol cost more than gasoline. Ethanol is the least expensive of most all available octane boosters. To maintain the octane rating, if the depot has a limited supply of ethanol, it is first used for premium and mid grade fuel. Only when there is enough left over that it is blended in regular. That's why the sign on the pump says, "up to 10% ethanol."

And, since regular is sold more than any other grade, it is the least likely to remain stored in the underground tank where moisture condensation may occur.

 

When E10 first became widespread, the octane rating on the pump was that of just the gasoline portion; it was really 1 or 2 higher because of the ethanol. Now the label is of the blend.

It cleans some things out. It shouldn't cause damage in newer cars.

Seafoam uses isopropanol. Plus a light oil and naphtha.

This depends on the region. In some places, premium is ethanol free.

 

My bad....
I'm a Baptist....so all alky-haul is evil!

 

Isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol (the main ingredient in rubbing alcohol) is the main ingredient in "gas dryer" sold in the red bottle. It mixes with water in the gas and allows it to be burned in the engine.

The yellow bottled "gas dryer" contains methanol which does not mix with water. Water just settles in the bottom of the tank from condensation as does with ethanol.

 

I think you might have the bottle colors reversed. One has Iso in the name.

Methanol and ethanol both mix with water, and quite easily. With E10, a gas drier additive isn't needed under normal circumstances. The problem is when there is too much water in the fuel. That is when phase separation occurs, and the water and alcohol separate from the gas like oil and water does. The fix is to add more alcohol. Phase separation is no longer a concern at E30 and higher.

 

I hope you're not serious about using E85 in your Prius, it's explicitly stated in the owner's manuals (both in my 2015 and my wife's 2017 Prime) not to use anything higher than 15%:

●Use only gasoline containing up to 15% ethanol.
DO NOT use any flex-fuel or gasoline that could contain more than 15% ethanol,
including from any pump labeled E30, E50, E85 (which are only some
examples of fuel containing more than 15% ethanol).

 

We had one of our engineering types (@bwilson4web ) experiment with E>15 with no reported ill effects to his car if my memory serves me correctly.....but yes.
It's not generally wise to go too much above E15 without modifying your car - and by this I do NOT mean buying one of those goofy bolt-on devices that they sell on TV to the gullible.....

The real question is:
Are biofuels a net GHG contributor?

This seems to be an alcohol 'good for you' or 'bad for you' question, and it beautifully illistrates my loathing for modern science....because the "answer" seems to depend on who is paying to feed the lab mice.
So far....answers are mixed, but I'm amused that the top two reasons that alky-haul critics give for keeping gas hooch-free are:
1. The land used for Ethanol production should be kept fallow....
and....
2. Food prices are soaring because farmers are growing corn for fuel.

Gotta love science.....

Me?
I was convinced when I read the total ethanol production numbers for places like Russia (non-potable ethanol!) Saudi Arabia, etc.....
No foreign wars for corn!


J. Goettemoeller; A. Goettemoeller (2007). Sustainable Ethanol: Biofuels, Biorefineries, Cellulosic Biomass, Flex-Fuel Vehicles, and Sustainable Farming for Energy Independence. Prairie Oak Publishing, Maryville, Missouri. p. 42. ISBN 978-0-9786293-0-4.

Biofuels: The Promise and the Risks, in World Development Report 2008" (PDF). The World Bank. 2008. pp. 70–71. Retrieved 4 May 2008.

T. Searchinger; et al. (2008). "Use of U.S. Croplands for Biofuels Increases Greenhouse Gases Through Emissions from Land-Use Change". Science. 319 (5867): 1238–40. Bibcode:2008Sci...319.1238S. doi:10.1126/science.1151861. PMID 18258860.. There are critics to these findings for assuming a worst-case scenario.

 

Actually E50 worked in both our 2003 and 2010 Prius. Higher levels resulted in a CHECK ENGINE light that was actually more of a warning than an actual problem. But I didn't want a harmless warning mask something serious.

Bob Wilson

 

+1
When the CEL is just about the only instrumentation you have, it's pretty important.

 

A new opportunity for the black market. "Hey kid, I got some fresh E10 right around the corner, it fell off the back of a truck".

 

I go out of my way to buy ethanol-free gas. Fortunately that is less than half a mile from my house. It is about 50¢ a gallon higher that E10. I don't mind since I rarely need gas with my PIP. My understanding is that small gas engines-- lawn mowers, chainsaws, etc. prefer ethanol-free, so I am thinking (maybe incorrectly) that this is better for my car too, esp. since it may be sitting in my tank for months. The amount of deregulations the past two years have me a bit disgruntled, but that would be getting too political....

 

These days rooting for the Dodgers in the NLCS is considered to be too political!

 

There were ancedotal reports of people not having issues using higher levels of ethanol in other cars, but that doesn't rule out ethanol causing problems for all cars not designed for those levels.

Gasoline goes 'bad' because of portions evaporating off and oxidation. A car's fuel tank is much better sealed than a small engine's and the portable gas cans. So fuel doesn't 'age' as fast in a car. Water isn't bad for the gas, but could be for engine parts. All ethanol has water in it though, so a car designed for it should be able to handle the water it normally carries.

Small engines may not have components hardened against ethanol. It can also loosen up gunk in the tank that then clogs something. Then the less sealed fuel containers could mean more water that comes out of solution, settles in the carb bowl, and starves the engine for fuel.

In terms of absolutely never adding ethanol, the only thing I'm aware of is fiberglass fuel tanks used on some boats. The ethanol can dissolve the resin, and carry it to the engine where it causes major damage.

 

Plus, with plug-ins like the Prime, PiP, Volt, etc., the fuel tanks are pressurized. That's why you have to get an OK to fill them.

 

Going back to Toyota USA's (questionable) statement in the 2016 manual that ethanol blends burn cleaner, that was true at one time, as follows:

When the EPA/Congress/Oil Industry/CARB developed reformulated gasoline as part of the 1990 Clean Air Act Ammendments, extensive auto/oil laboratory studies were conducted to show what gasoline components helped gasoline produce less emissions. Surprisingly, it turned out ethanol did not help reduce emissions too much in the age of cat converters. That's when Congress stepped in to say, essentially, Congress feels the data is wrong and Congress declares by edict that reformulated gasoline will henceforth contain 10% ethanol, along with other recipe changes that do make reformulated gasoline burn more cleanly. Oil industry vehemently objected to the "bad science of ethanol", but lost the battle, with the compromise being MTBE could be used as well as ethanol. MTBE later proved to be an eco-problem, and was banned leaving ethanol as the only oxygenate mandated for inclusion into reformulated gasoline.

So historically, if you were using reformulated gasoline, it did contain 10% ethanol, and it did burn more cleanly, but not because of the ethanol so much. Enter Congress again who around 2006, due in part to "peak oil" concerns at the time, mandated that all USA gasoline -reformulated and conventional- eventually contain 10% ethanol which phased in totally by about 2012 or so.

So at this point, I personally would not agree with Toyota's statement that ethanol blends burn more cleanly, because now ethanol use is not restricted to only reformulated gasoline. Furthermore, I also suspect cars like Prius are so incredibly cleaner than the cars used in 1990 auto/oil laboratory studies, such that even the reformulated gasoline formula itself probably does not matter too much (except the ultra low sulfur part is important as that sulfur poisons the cat converter). Reformulated gasoline is essentially a lower energy (lower MPG) blend which as Priuis drivers I think we'd rather have max MPG gasoline as long as emissions are not increased.