European "Prime" has different EV mode names

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by GT4Prius, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    Just found the following in the European Manual for the "Prime". I don't find the descriptions very easy to follow.

    It refers to the EV modes as EV, and EV City.

    Does these map across to EV and EV Auto in the U.S. judging by what your manual says? Are they the same thing by a different name, or are they different in the way they work?

    I can't see anywhere yet that it says whether there is a default that the car goes back to (as in the U.S. Prime), or whether it retains the last used setting.

    I also note that it says that EV City mode is cancelled when you select DRCC! Is that similar to the Prime in the U.S.?

    From the European Manual:
    EV mode
    When a sufficient amount of electricity is remaining after charging*1, EV driving is performed using electricity stored in the hybrid battery (traction battery).*2 When in EV mode, the EV drive mode indicator illuminates. *1: The amount of remaining charge can be checked on the multi-information display etc. (P. 227) *2: Depending on the situation, EV driving may be canceled and both gasoline engine and electric motor are used. (P. 98)
    Plug-in hybrid system operation mode
    1
    90 2-1. Plug-in hybrid system
    PRIUS PHV_OM_OM47A89E_(EE)
    EV City mode
    (P. 92) When a sufficient amount of electricity for EV driving is remaining in the hybrid battery (traction battery)*1, the operation mode can be switched to EV City mode. EV City mode limits motor output and minimizes the operation of the gasoline engine.*2 Therefore, the vehicle can be driven with only electric motor (traction motor) in city areas, etc. When in EV City mode, the EV City mode indicator illuminates. *1: The amount of remaining charge can be checked on the multi-information display etc. (P. 227) *2: When acceleration is required, fully depress the accelerator pedal to start the gasoline engine.

    P.S. Apologies for the typo in the thread title. I can't edit it.
     
  2. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Hmm. Interesting, but confusing. Do you have or expect to get a Prime?

    The articles seem to refer to Prius Prime, the plug in, as opposed to the Gen 4 Prii. Have never read about the City EV other than the normal EV and can't say I've seen that in the car either. Of course, mine is a Business Edition without all the bells and whistles. My advice to you would be to ask @bwilson4web on here as he has a new Prime now.
     
  3. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    Exactly.

    Interesting but confusing as you say. Yes am certainly seriously considering getting a UK "Prime"*. Need to see one and decide whether there it's enough hatch space but apart from that, at the newly lowered price, it would suit us very well indeed.

    (*It would be much easier and better if Toyota would call it that outside the U.S. rather than PHV or is it PHEV?)

    Will try BWilson he is in Europe is he? Thanks.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Bob is in USA, but he is an engineer and I thought he might have an answer. The Toyota website has nothing to say about this (yet)! Sorry I can't be more helpful.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the euro and us pips were different too. you may have to do your own investigation, as operating parameters are likely different.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    It may make more sense to point to an English language version of the EU Prime manual. That way we can also check for "Hybrid Vehicle Mode." But so far, I concur with:
    • City EV <-> EV Auto
    • EV <-> EV
    • ? 'DRCC' <-> HV where the car sustains the charge by running as a hybrid. It will borrow from the traction battery BUT repays the energy. Preservation of the charge means the EV mode can be used at the destination which may forbid engine operation. What does DRCC mean?
    One bit of confusion is I understand some EU capitals allow pure-EV operation in the inner districts but otherwise engine operation is banned. Instead of "City EV", I probably would have used "Extra Urban EV" or "Highway EV" or "Rural EV" because the engine and EV combine to optimize range and efficiency. I fear use of "City" might be considered for places were engine operation is banned.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Feb 27, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  7. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    Thanks. Good idea re comparing manuals.

    I read it the other way round. EV City I took to be EV and EV I took to be EV Auto.

    I will report back after comparing manuals.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What I remember of the EU PiP; the top speed, and maybe other thresholds for ICE turn on were lower than the North American model, but it had a truly EV only mode, albeit for urban speeds only. The lower triggers for hybrid operation were to allow more charge to be saved for arrival at an EV only location. I think that EV only mode might have been called EV City.

    If I'm correct about the EV City being a label from an EU PiP, Toyota felt some need to reuse it for the Prime/PHEV. I'm guessing since EV Auto should result with more charge upon arrival to an EV only location, it got the honors.
    This was the clue that EV City was EV Auto, "When acceleration is required, fully depress the accelerator pedal to start the gasoline engine." Hopefully the manuals will provide insight into any actual operation differences between US EV Auto and EU EV City. I won't hold out hope based on the posted entries.
     
  9. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    Ok. Comparing manuals doesn't help.

    It almost sounds like there is no EV Auto mode, just an EV mode and a hobbled PiP mode!

    I hope I'm wrong about that!

    Note that it says in EV mode, "EV driving may be cancelled by rapid acceleration or vehicle speed". So both modes can be cancelled by hard acceleration, which I think might negate @BWilsonforweb's theory.

    But what on earth does this mean, in EV city?

    "Motor output is limited at the same level unless the accelerator pedal is fully depressed. When it is necessary to accelerate the vehicle, depress the accelerator pedal completely or cancel EV City mode as needed". ???

    So NO acceleration is possible in this mode? I don't think so. Incredibly badly worded and unclear!!

    It also says that DRCC use will cancel EV City. Why? I didn't read that in the U.S. Prime manual.

    I had pretty much decided to buy one based on the U.S. Prime owners experiences but if they have messed up the European version, I might have to rethink!

    Confused and unimpressed!

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Me, "Honey, let's go to Europe, the UK. I hear they have great food."

    She who must be obeyed, "I've been to the UK and their food s*cks as much as their weather. So why do you really want to go?"

    Me, "Well I understand they are getting the Prius Prime and need help translating it from Japan-eglish to Python-eglish and I've studied both."

    She who must be obeyed, "Oh YEA! You're probably going over there to watch Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, and play with your silly cars. No way! I'm going to Italy."

    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I know what you'd be watching . . . .
    ;)
    [​IMG]
    .
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    bob, i would compromise with a week in each.:cool:
     
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  13. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    DRCC is Dynamic Radar Cruise Control. Don't know why the car cancels EV City mode when you use DRCC. Does DRCC cancel any EV mode in the U.S.?

    You are out of date re food in the UK. We are up there with the best these days. Can't say the same for our weather though.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a week in london, or the countryside would be fabulous, i'm sure. when is the sunny season?
     
  15. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    If only we knew! in theory, warmer weather is May/June to September. A well known journalist and author, Hunter Davies, said of the beautiful Lake District I which I live, that whatever the weather is doing at any given moment, "it will change", so if you go on a walk, take a variety of clothing with you, and a rucksack to put the extra layers in during the warmer and dryer times (minutes or hours).



    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  16. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    With the EU PiP, we don't have 'power' button but we have EV auto instead which is basically special pedal mapping: something in between 'power' and 'normal' at the beginning of the displacement, then drops to eco like and even becoming anemic. Full throttle will make the ICE join of course for full power output.
    The logic behind it is to eliminate unattended ICE firing in urban driving which can occur in EV mode with the PiP.
    Although the 2017 Prius PHV will not fire the ICE accidentally in most cases, I believe it is similar pedal mapping (the descriptions in the EU PiP and the PHV manuals are the same) the reasoning here will be just to give full car power available when needed (which the EV mode will not give in most circumstances).
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i must have lucked out in '72, almost a week of sunshine. i had the same luck in san francisco, so maybe it's just me. the rest of my life is a little black cloud.:cool:
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  19. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    P.s. Found this in the Car magazine review of the uk Plugin, looks like I was right about which mode is which:

    "For best results, serve in EV mode; press the respective button to put the Prius Plug-in’s petrol engine into lockdown and you almost get a BMW i3-matching feeling of responsiveness and a potential all-electric top speed of 84mph. It may not have the German car’s speed, but the Prius feels more than fast enough for urban settings, and it’s surprisingly agile around corners too – perfect for dodging London buses and maintaining momentum for maximum range.

    Hybrid HV mode, meanwhile, juggles petrol power and electric energy for itself, while a super-pious EV City mode slashes the batteries power only calling on under-bonnet fossil fuel fireworks when you mash the throttle into the bulkhead."

    And this from DriveEV:

    "EV Mode primarily uses electric power from the HV battery to drive the vehicle, only starting the engine when the throttle is wide open or at high vehicle speeds. It incorporates a switchable EV City Mode, which reduces maximum power output and only starts the engine when the throttle kick-down is engaged, allowing the new Toyota PHV to run on electric power alone for as long as possible."

    This from the Telegraph:
    "you can also select EV mode, which drives on battery power almost continually until it's empty, Hybrid mode which combines petrol and electric modes to best effect, Charge mode which uses the petrol engine to recharge the battery as well as drive the car and EV City is a low-power EV mode."

    And this from Auto Express:

    " EV mode sticks to pure-electric power, only using the petrol engine when the throttle is wide open - and it has a further setting, EV City, where power is reduced for even greater range in lower-speed urban environments."

    The odd thing is where does MG2 for in to all this? It's hard to see in these descriptions when or even whether we get the benefit of two motor operation.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  20. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    So not only do we have to learn "Prime speak", we have to learn the various local dialects?? Wow! ;)
     
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