European Volt/Ampera already has 7000 confirmed orders

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by GrumpyCabbie, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    The Volt/Ampera here in Europe now has 7,000 confirmed orders, almost matching 12 month sales in the USA.

    Vauxhall Ampera off to roaring start in Europe


    Personally it has surprised me as the car isn't cheap (£29,995 compared to £21,500 for a base Prius), but with petrol now costing about $8.20 a US gallon, the Volt/Ampera makes sense.

    I have today received my Chevrolet Volt sales brochure and it makes the car look good, just a shame it has 4 not 5 seats. The Volt/Ampera doesn't carry the political baggage it has in America so will sell on its merits.

    Hope to see one on the roads soon.
     
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  2. johalareewi

    johalareewi Member

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  3. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Its not just the petrol prices, its also the city congestion tax issues which I understand in many places is up to 10EU /day. With the "hold mode", users can be pure EV in the city center.

    Not sure it would ever make as much sense as a cab as you'd put more than 30-40 miles on it per day and the mid-recharge some get at work would not really help when your work is on the road.

    It will be nice to see US cars selling well in EU. Though it makes one wonder about shutting down production for 5-weeks when they have open orders. Then again GM management has always been confusing. At least they have good engineers!
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...better Volt success in EU is a nice possibility. Not only is gaso expensive, but there is some preference for diesel which hurts Prius. At least Volt can be thought of as EV and a small sporty car. Also some trend to spend more on vehicles re: care maintenance etc. Also lots of spare nuke power from France at night. Not sure if all of the above true for Grumpy's UK area, but I am thinking Volt fits German/Austrian market tastes.
     
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Don't count your sales until your orders are hatched.
     
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  6. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Yeah that's odd. I mentioned it in an earlier post along the lines that it's almost like GM/Vauxhall don't really want to sell the Volt/Ampera.

    There is a £5,000 grant to be deducted from the £37k, making £32,250 but it doesn't make this clear on the Vauxhall site. Chevrolet UK however, have the price at £34,995 but stress that the £5k can be deducted, making £29,995.

    Still pricey for a 4 seater, though I'm sure they'll try and sell it on the free entry to London CCZ. Not sure how many people take their cars into the CCZ to warrant this high cost. Perhaps they should stop being London centric and sell the car to the other 60 million people in the Country.
     
  7. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    It will be (not) interesting to watch these sales in european ground.
    Portugal has just dropped EV tax incentives, and never held PHEV in that group.
    So it will be a "base price" war to get sales out of a PHEV and people not buying a diesel.
    PIP Prius will start deliveries in July, I guess will face the same problem.
     
  8. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

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    I think that there is a very good chance of success for the Ampera - you take the significantly higher gas prices and the payback/break even period will make more sense in Europe.

    I have not seen hard and fast evidence, but my gut would say that Europeans would typically drive less and have shorter commutes than Americans - can any of you across the Pond comment on this - if true it would mean that the 40ish miles of EV driving would better fit the Euro lifestyle.

    As others have said the fact that it is limited to 4 seats will limit its appeal - if they could ever flatten out the battery pack and graft a body like a Ford C-Max onto the Volt power train then it would have widespread appeal.
     
  9. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I can't find proof but I guess we have shorter commutes too, where 40 miles would probably cover there and back. Now do we have shorter commutes because fuel has always been higher over here?

    I know in my town people commute to the nearest cities, either 12 or 20 miles away, so a Volt/Ampera would be ideal for them. Saying that, we have a good bus and rail connection to both cities too and professionals aren't averse to travelling by public transport. We have special double decker commuter buses which have wifi and leather seats. :cool: My town is also fighting to improve the rail connections too.

    For comparison petrol costs £1.40 a litre ($8.21 US gallon) and electricity costs £0.15 a kwh for 100% green (renewable) and about £0.135 a kwh for brown. Night time rates (known as economy 7) are about £0.064 kwh, but with increased daytime rates of £0.18.

    So petrol is way more than you pay but electricity is only slightly so, making EV's and plug in hybrids much more viable.

    BBC News - Petrol prices hit another record high

    https://www.ebico.org.uk/products-and-prices/equipower-prices

    Check Our Prices - For Your Home - Ecotricity
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    There is a lot more different between Europe and the US than just the fuel rates, but even this limited angle is not obvious:

    I am converting into US$ ...
    electricity (per GC) in the UK is 7 cents a mile for the Volt
    The alternative car is usually a 40 MPG diesel that costs 20 cents a mile
    So savings are 13 cents a mile

    Realistically, miles over 10k annual (maybe less) are petrol anyway in a Volt, so the annual fuel savings is $1300

    Barring future proof, I depreciate the Volt down to $0 by 10 years of ownership so net fuel savings is $13,000.

    A diesel starts out at least $13,000 less to purchase than a Volt even with generous Volt subsidy, has a useful life greater than 10 years, and gains opportunity costs on the purchase price differential. The diesel is a known quantity, while the Volt owner buys uncertainty.

    I gather GM thought it best to market the car to people who pay city congestion charges. I think they are right. It is a tacit admission that fuel savings alone are not an "economic" argument that will sway buyers.
     
  11. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Is anybody aware of a Volt chat site, I'd like to hear the opinions of Volt owners both here and abroad. :cheer2:
     
  12. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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  13. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    You might find international Volt/Ampera chat forums a bit thin on the ground. The car hasn't been released for sale (orders just started being taken) in any English speaking (and likely RHD)Countries (Australia, South Africa, Ireland & UK).

    Car forums aren't as popular here either - hence why I'm on Priuschat :) The UK Prius forum is slow to say the least with maybe one topic a day.
     
  14. johalareewi

    johalareewi Member

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    I am lucky in that my commute is about 20 miles each way but round here, a lot of people commute towards London and a trip of 60 to 70 miles each way would not be unusual.
     
  15. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I was refering to the 80% of the working population who don't work in London ;)

    Sure there are going to be some who travel further. My stepfather commuted about 80 miles each way back in the mid 1990's but that's unusual. Most people will drive 10 or 20 miles each way and many travel much less.

    Just googled it and found that the UK's average commute is 8.5 miles. Can't find a more recent link that quotes distances as most quote the time involved.

    BBC NEWS | UK | UK commute 'longest in Europe'


    Thinking back to London. You'd need your head seeing to if you had to drive into the center every day for work. :eek:
     
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  16. johalareewi

    johalareewi Member

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    :D:D:D:D:D:D

    Crumbs, that's not very far at all.
    A lot of people use the train for that but for those working in the M25 corridor, the train is not so convenient so a car it is (or motorbike).
     
  17. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    ampera 45.000 euro here
    and thats already with the ECO deduction ( like no special car buy tax, you still pay the normal tax of 19% )
    base prius 25.000 euro. ( also without the car buy tax )

    btw
    gas is almost at 1,90 euro( 5,5 dollar per gallon ) per liter ( or 0,26 gallon of fuel ) and maybe will hit 2 euro per liter this summer when gas price always is higher
    elec = 25 euro cent per kwh day and 17 eurocents night.
     
  18. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I really can't see what benefits there are to living in Holland any more with those prices and taxes.

    You got your sums wrong too :)

    €1.90 a litre is €7.03 a US gallon (3.7 litres US gallon, 4.5 litres UK gallon). €7.03 to US$ is $9.30 a US gallon!?!?!

    Your electric is way expensive too;

    Holland 25c a kwh day, 17c night
    UK Either 14p a kwh day and night OR 18p day and 8p night and inc vat.
    Converted to US$

    Euro 25c = 33c US
    Euro 17c = 22c US
    UK 18p = 28c US
    UK 14p = 22c US
    UK 8p = 12c US

    Our flat rate is the same as your cheaper night rate.

    We used to see lots of Dutch cars over here (via Hull) but we don't see so many now. With those tax rates I can understand why :(
     
  19. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    Thanks for the number-crunching, makes it very insightful!
    In Holland, the roadtax of some 1500-2000$ a year for a Volt-size car on diesel would easily tip the scale the other way round. The Volt would be free for the first 5 years, but what happens after this is anyone's guess...

    You saw and fixed it already :)
    FlyingWhiteDutchman's numbers immediately triggered me, as I'm awaiting the day I can proudly boast on this US forum that we're paying 10$ a gallon. :eek::D. We're darn close.

    Very few, I tried getting a job elsewhere, but did not succeed.
    And in all fairness, when I got ill, I was glad to be here as our NHS system is not too shabby ;) But that would have been the same in pretty much any European and quite a few Asian countries. Just glad it didn't happen in the US. Don't know the system well enough to say for sure, but a Canadian colleague moved to the US and got his savings wiped out when his son got ill.:confused:

    Are those numbers from a year or two ago? The night price, for no understandable reason, has crept up to the day price to within 2 cents. There really is NO use whatsoever anymore having a double (more expensive) meter, but changing it costs money too... And at least my current (double) meter runs backwards when my solarpanels are doing their job. When getting a new meter, they would probably force a new meter on me. Even though I would be entitled to a free registration of grid-fed kWh's, I'd rather not have my energycompany involved in any way since they may start wining about the transportcosts and taxes that I am getting refunded on grid-fed kWh's.
     
  20. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    there are so many these days
    one is cheaper on day and other on night

    when you charge a PHEV duing the night its better to have a double meter ;-)

    i also have solar panels but i have the new meter! with 4 counters. 1 day out and 1 day IN and 1 night out and 1 in.
    what do you mean wining about transport cost?

    then i have 25cents per KWH and i put back 1 kwh i get 25 cents less right?
     
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