1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

EV "B"rake Mode

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by mr88cet, May 19, 2017.

  1. kevinwhite

    kevinwhite Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    331
    199
    0
    Location:
    Los Gatos Ca
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    On the normal hybrid when driving manually or using DRCC the engine braking will automatically be engaged and the ICE will start spinning when the battery gets full. This is without changing to B mode. B mode does seem to change how aggressive engine braking will be used but I've seen the engine at over 4000RPM while going downhill in DRCC.

    kevin
     
    heiwa likes this.
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,118
    10,045
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    In HV mode, for best MPG, definitely don't use B for flat roads. It will disable engine auto-stop, wasting gasoline.

    Not having a plug-in, I cannot really speak for EV mode, which differs dramatically from my Liftback. But I'm suspecting that for most typical drivers, B would end up regenerating some energy that would be better left to natural coasting or gliding. Remember that electric regen and propulsion are not perfectly efficient. Every time some energy is laundered back and forth between mechanical car motion and battery storage, a portion is skimmed off and lost as heat. B mode will encourage more of this back-and-forth conversion than will D mode, so more will get wasted.
     
    Mendel Leisk, heiwa and Lee Jay like this.
  3. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    2,785
    1,152
    0
    Location:
    Roseville, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Maybe this was discussed in subsequent posts, and if so, I apologize for a redundant post, but when I said that DRCC was equivalent to throttle/brake pedal usage, I meant that slowing down with DRCC would be done in the same way as pressing the brake pedal does it, which is some combination of regeneration, friction brakes, and engine braking, depending on many conditions. For example, when I have DRCC engaged and come upon a slower vehicle, I can see the hybrid display swing toward the regeneration portion as the car is slowed down. If did not have DRCC engaged, and instead just manually applied the brakes, i would see the same thing.
     
  4. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    2,785
    1,152
    0
    Location:
    Roseville, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Concerning the safety aspects of just using regeneration to slow down when the brake pedal is pressed, you can be sure that if you slam on the brakes in an emergency, that the friction brakes will be engaged, subject to the anti-lock functionality. And due to some claims that the throttle got stuck and caused an accident, pressing the brake pedal deactivates the throttle. So if you slam on both the brake and throttle at the same time, you will slow down. Like in many modern cars, the throttle pedal in a Prius is just a sensor that provides input to the engine control computer, and it will be ignored if pressure on the brake pedal is detected.
     
  5. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,306
    1,331
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Sure. The concern is not disabling ABS or ESC in emergencies; the concern is anything that is capable of disabling the friction brakes is at least 99.99999% reliable (hypothetical numbers). That is, effectively no chance of mistakenly disabling them.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #25 mr88cet, May 20, 2017
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  6. kevinwhite

    kevinwhite Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    331
    199
    0
    Location:
    Los Gatos Ca
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    You have about the right number of '9's - there are internationally agreed upon probability levels for such failures - they are referred to as ASIL (Automotive Safety Integrity Level) ratings.

    For the brakes to fail and not be operative is probably an ASIL D which has a probability of failure of 10**-7 per hour.

    kevin
     
    Lee Jay likes this.
  7. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,306
    1,331
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    As specified by ISO26262.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
  8. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,018
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Don't forget, there are backups for stopping the car:

    Regeneration
    Engine braking
    Hydraulic friction brakes
    Mechanical friction brakes (emergency/parking brake)
     
    heiwa likes this.
  9. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,981
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    You left off the car in front or the tree at the side of the road. ;)
     
    heiwa likes this.
  10. Krzysiek_KTA

    Krzysiek_KTA Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    159
    125
    0
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    @stevepea
    To add my 5 cents after over 1000 miles in EV mode on my Prime I might offer the following feedback:

    By priciple EV range maximization requires eliminating (if possible) of friction braking and also minimize re-gen (as @ fuzzy1 highlighted the re-gen - propulsion process is not lossless) therefore staying in D mode and applying "coasting" technique (keeping accelerator pedal slightly depressed to minimize/eliminate re-gen) gave me the best range for any given average e/v speed.

    Nevertheless, since eliminating the use of friction breaks and "coasting" is not easily achievable in real day-to-day traffic (at least here in Houston) I have found valid reason to use B mode for my day-to-day driving as follows:

    For Stop and Go traffic especially the unpredictable traffic when friction breaking is likely to be applied on regular basis (read Houston traffic) use of "B" in E/V mode maximizes re-gen (and changes the driving habit) and eventually minimize the use of friction breaks =at the end of the day better E/V range in such conditions.

    I can't quantify objective gains, but I noticed E/V range improvements in really heavy traffic ( the 'kinda' one pedal like driving in heavy traffic might have also contributed to the range gains).

    Other than that I found "D" and DRCC on highways sufficiently efficient and convenient for me to consistently achieve ranges over 30 e/v miles on flat Houston roads.

    cheers

    Kris
     
    Prius from Dad likes this.