EV Mode Cold Weather

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by TRHaley, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. ems2158

    ems2158 Member

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    I tried driving in EV mode last night, a 17 mile trip from my daughter's house. Temperature was around 14F. The indicated EV range with a full battery was 22 miles. I was able to drive 14 miles in EV mode before the ICE automatically started while driving at 55 mph up a slight incline. I did not change any defogging or climate control settings to trigger the ICE. The indicated EV range was still showing 4 miles.
    Not at all impressed with this level of performance.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds about right though, at that temp, toyota clearly states the engine may come on for multiple reasons, least of which would be protecting the battery from high output.
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yap! Exactly the same with my experience. Heat pump is just not effective in extreme cold.
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Toyota has said it's more efficient to heat the car with the engine at or below 14°F/-10°C. The Prius is about efficiency (which is one the PiP kicked in the engine when stronger acceleration is needed but the market and owner dictated that the preferred option is full EV even at full acceleration, even if it's less efficient to do so).
     
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  5. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    118 mile r/t this morning, temperatures started out in the 20s F and sky was cloudy but during the return the sun was out and temperatures had increased I think into the 40s F.

    I forgot my phone, so I was without a temperature gauge. I drove EV out of town and then switched to HV. After 5 minutes or so I turned on cabin heating. Most of the battery was used during the return trip although I struggled juggling cabin heating, EV depletion without cabin heating, and keeping the ICE warm. Next time I remember my phone !

    I ended up at 87.7 MPG + one battery charge. This works out to e.g. 30 mile EV and 65 MPG
     
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  6. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    14 degrees this morning here. I drove around town stopping a lot at different places. Was able to stay in EV mode the whole time...no ICE came on with the cold outside. Ran the heater low, heated steering wheel, and heated seat the whole time.
     
  7. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Weirdly, as the temp displayed 21 F this morning (it was actually 19), and no heat or accessories on, the car started in Gas HV mode. Yet it worked in EV the other day at 17 degrees. SOC was above 50% in both cases. I know not what the computer in the car thinks.
     
  8. ColoradoPrime

    ColoradoPrime Junior Member

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    DavidA...this has also been my experience here in Colorado, there is no obvious logic to when the Prius will or will not go forward on electric instead of gas when it it below about 15 deg. F. with a fully charged battery. On my previous 2016 Volt, there was a specific temperature setting below which the car started on gas, the prius appears to do some other calculation. It is a very frustrating "feature"
     
  9. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    And here I am a year and a week later and with 4 miles of EV left, and not one accessory on except the radio, it flipped into HV. 23 degrees F under hardly a load and 30 mph. Then, when started again after 15 minutes of parking, and with 3 miles EV remaining, HV didn't engage and I was off in EV for another mile before it went HV again - but that was understandable with 1.9 miles remaining. Just doesn't let it go all the way to 0 miles at low temps. Just weird, but that's the new normal with this car in the winter.
     
  10. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Right. The HV battery pack does not have a proper Thermal Management System so that little pack has to be babied.

    You should have bought a Volt.
    You'd have a true 4 season EV that has 150 HP on tap, regardless.
    Blast up a mountain with Full Throttle. Press that Defrost button. Use the brake pedal coming down the mountain and get 60kW of Regen with no Friction Brakes.
    All without the smelly gasser turning on when it's ice cold to help power the car. As such, up to 2 year oil changes.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm at 90% ev with pip. and mine rarely comes on in winter. volt would be overkill for me, and seems smaller than pip.
    but i swore off hmm when they went belly up and my father got burned on his stock. killed his golden years
     
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  12. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Amazing for a Pip! Is it different than a Prime to 'Deal with' in winter weather? You must be running No Heat....:(
    Of course with a Volt you could have full heat, full defrost and Full Power (!) without 'gaming' anything.
    It's a True EV, when in that mode.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, no heat :eek: i would like the prime heat pump, but then i would need the bigger battery.

    i'm not sure of the differences between the batteries. there's no conditioning at all on the pip, yet some members are upwards of 200,000 miles with no battery replacements yet.

    i think the range may take a bigger hit from lack of conditioning, i've lost about 15% from new, most of it in the first two years.

    agreed, volt would have enough power for full heat in my driving scenario.

    so would prime, but i can't get past the 3" raised hatch floor, i love the pip hatch space, and utilize it often, including a donut spare.

    i could have had a prime for 5k, after all discounts and pip trade in. that's how much the hatch floor bothers me. i refuse to go backwards
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    We all know that Prius Prime is far more efficient in the cold due to it having an industry leading heat-pump and having a more refined design. We also know if you are plugged in prior to driving, the system will keep the battery-pack warmed using externally supplied electricity.

    As for you still coming here to push Volt... a vehicle clearly not competitive with Prime in terms of EV or HV efficiency or in any way affordability... you can stop now. News from Detroit is that GM is abandoning hybrids entirely... because it cannot compete in that market.
     
  15. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    I think you’re right there.

    Another shocker: GM is moving to China, I wonder how true that is... That GM is no longer in the DJIA was
    a incredible piece of info, to me. This is the conglomerate, whose chairman said, Americans don’t like small cars, they don’t buy them. Where do they find these idiots anyway. ???

    My Prime has now dropped to a 20 mile EV range, with daily preConditioning I can cover about 40 miles thru topographical spans of curves, steep climbs and quick accelerations. With a comfortably warmed vehicle and incredible drive-ability. My Winter average is now 100 mpg. , which I’m satisfied with. Considering the daily stress I put the car thru it still amazes me. No negatives on the Volt, Bolt, I considered them too. Now if I could find a decent hatch......... Bisco, sell yours?
     
    #35 Andyprius1, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2019
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    of course, first 10k gets it. i have to warn you, theres some duck tape on the rear bumper :)
     
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  17. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    >Any heat pump has a limited range of temps, and it can't defrost and heat at the same time.
    (Using a resistance heat source is simple and gets the job done when you have an adequate HV pack.)
    Press the defrost - the smelly ice cold gasser fires up.
    Press on the Go pedal too much or drive too fast - the smelly ice cold gasser fires up.
    All these cold start events are not ideal for an ICE and you still need to change the oil at 10k intervals, regardless. (Some owners, in ideal climates and commuting distances are throwing away really fresh oil.)
    The Prime is not 100% percent EV. The Volt is.
    Going the most % as an EV IS the efficiency we want. Using electrons is always more efficient.

    >It's good that the Prime can warm the pack when plugged in. It's weird how it cools the pack when plugged in.
    And when driving, only cabin air is passing through the pack. That's a very Low-tech approach.
    To slow battery degradation a proper Li-ion pack needs a proper TMS.

    >'affordability'? That is a complicated subject. $7500 tax break, the ability to operate Full EV in a wide range of temps and speeds, not having the ice cold ICE come on frequently and the related possible 2 yr. oil change intervals....It all adds up.
    Total Cost of Ownership should be factored. (Total hours an owner has to deal with maintenance should also be a factor.)
    The Prime is a lower tech PHEV, (except for the heat pump system, which adds X miles to its limited EV range).
    The Prime will theoretically be experiencing more HV battery degradation and ICE degradation, than a Volt.
    (I like to point out that gassers have degradation too, when asked about my BEV.)

    >Yep, the Volt is now an orphan. Surely they are not giving up on this amazing PHEV drive unit.
    And they are making claims of many new EV's in the works.
    Toyota, however, is late to the Li-Ion battery world.
    What they currently have is executed cheaply. They are also going to be very late to the BEV world.
    Both corporations are acting strangely,, IMO.:(
     
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  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Our electric rate was increased starting on Jan 1. It has been staying single-digit cold, my prime starts ICE immediately when I turn on the car. Even with heat off, the EV range is now below 20 miles. I just filled my tank with $1.769/gal gas. HV run is now almost a half price of EV drive. Oh well, I am not going to charge my car for a while.

    IMG_20190113_110413 (1).jpg
     
  19. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Many gas stations in California are still $3.00 plus, so you have really cheap gasoline! Temps here range from 34-60 so my range is 21, yesterday. Almost made my round trip on total EV. I try not to think about when gasoline was .25 a gallon.
     
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  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I had a gas reward to use on this pump. The posted price was $2.169/gal. Still, cheaper than electric.
     
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