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EV range—brand-new 2021 Limited vs. 2020 XLE with 7,000 miles

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by Gokhan, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    From the 2020 Prius Prime new-car features manual:

    GENERAL
    OUTLINE
    (a) The automatic air conditioning system uses neural network control to enhance comfort.
    (b) S-FLOW control is used to concentrate the air outlets on the front seats.
    (c) By utilizing a heat pump air conditioning system with gas injection function, an air conditioning system with a
    high efficiency ratio has been realized.
    (1) When outside temperatures are low, heating ability is ensured by not relying on engine coolant
    temperatures driving in EV mode.
    (2) Efficient heating of the vehicle contributes to enhanced EV mode distance.
    (d) By utilizing the remote air conditioning system remotely using the electrical key transmitter sub-assembly or
    a smartphone, the air conditioning system can be made to heat or cool the vehicle. With this, uncomfortable
    cabin temperatures (hot, cold) when entering the vehicle can be reduced.
    (1) It is possible to provide heating as well as cooling.
    (2) A dedicated power supply circuit for the remote air conditioning system is used.
    (3) By starting the remote air conditioning system remotely by using a smartphone, it is possible to change
    the air outlet selection or set temperature. (Models with navigation system (premium model or JBL
    premium model))
    (e) When the charging timer system is operating, the climate prep function which uses the air conditioning
    system to heat or cool the air approximately 10 minutes prior to the set departure time can be utilized. With
    this, uncomfortable cabin temperatures (hot, cold) when entering the vehicle can be reduced.

    Heat Pump Heater

    (c) Gas Injection Heat Pump Heater
    (1) By using the gas injection heat pump, refrigerant which has released its heat is separated into liquid and
    gas by the cyclone separator integrated valve and the liquid refrigerant efficiently absorbs heat through
    the outer heat exchanger, and the quantity of refrigerant flow back to the gas injection equipped electric
    inverter compressor is increased. With this, when the outside temperature is low, heating performance is
    ensured.
     
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  2. Chris Black

    Chris Black Junior Member

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    My 2 cents: I owned both a xle and limited 2020. They sounded different and I did notice features did have a effect on battery range. Also My wife and I will get wildly different ranges in the same car, same route days apart.
     
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  3. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Update: Today at ~ 70 °F ambient temperature and with the A/C set at 68 °F, I averaged a round-trip city-driving EV range of 43 miles with the 2021 Prius Prime Limited (a 15.7-mile trip with 64% SOC remaining at the end)! It is the best car in the world! :)

    The best EV range I ever got with the 2020 Prius Prime XLE was 38 miles during the warm summer months. So, there is a 13% improvement from the 2020 model to the 2021 model, probably thanks to the fresh battery that is not being left fully charged and not being charged when hot (immediately after driven) and the A/C set near the ambient temperature.

    Now, the next goal is a round-trip EV range of 45+ miles. ;)

    Tip: The heater and A/C (especially the heater) make a huge difference. Set your A/C near the ambient temperature if possible for a much longer EV range.
     
    #43 Gokhan, Dec 19, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  4. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    43 is great. What speeds are your city driving. Mine is most 50-55 with frequent stops. Therefore, I'm only averaging about 5.0 miles/kWh.
     
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  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Speed limits around here are udyskky
    The speed limits around here in the more suburban parts of the Southern California are usually 40 MPH (45 MPH on some streets), but I drive gently and keep it below 35 MPH when possible, trying to eliminate sudden braking and acceleration.
     
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    What is your lifetime miles/kWh on the Drive Monitor 2?
    You may want to report it here: What is your miles/kWh (total average electricity consumption) on the Drive Monitor 2 | PriusChat

    At the beginning of the ownership, this number can change fairly rapidly up and down, but as you accumulate more miles on ODO, it will stabilize. In order to get consistent 45 miles of EV range from a full tank, you will need at least 8 miles/kWh on DM2.
     
    #46 Salamander_King, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  7. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Remember, I started at 28 miles on my first EV run (battery not-yet self-calibrated, heater set at 78 °F), and I just got up to 43 miles yesterday on my fifth EV run. I drive EV only once a week; so, this is a work in progress since I bought my car on November 16, 2020. This is gentle city driving, and I certainly wouldn't be able to get 43 miles on the freeway unless it's stop-and-go.

    Note that I charge my car at 8 A, 120 V.
     
  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes. I know it's a new car with very few EV miles. That's why I am asking what your miles/kWh on your DM2 is now to compare it with a later number. As I said, this number will fluctuate wildly on a very new car but will stabilize over time. For my 2017 PP, I did not keep a record of this number in the beginning. By the time I started recording it and paying more attention to it, I already had over 30K miles on ODO. The number would not change much even with intentionally trying to increase this number by driving the car with HV supplemented EV mode. With my 2020 PP now with ~3K miles, the number was 22miles/kWh at a top but it is now down to 15miles/kWh and will go down more as I do more EV drive. I drive only once a week using ~30% SoC.
     
    #48 Salamander_King, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Why does it give such high readings?
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Since I got the car in March, I have charged the car full only 3-4 times. The rest of the charging was always partial up to 30-40%. To use partial charge efficiently, I have used quite a bit of HV mode mixed with EV mode. Using HV mode for mostly high demand portion of the trip such as acceleration from a dead stop or uphill climbs and saving EV mode mainly on flat coasting or a downhill portion. I get artificially inflated miles/kWh, also get lower overall mpg than if I had used a full charge EV range. My projection is that the miles/kWh number will continue to go down and stabilize to ~8miles/kWh and at the same time my lifetime mpg should go up to ~95mpg, if and when I do enough EV mode driving.

    Screenshot 2020-12-20 at 1.02.45 PM.png
     
    #50 Salamander_King, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    OK, I've now looked at the information screen. I find the information on the eco diary a lot more useful than on the drive monitor 2, as my driving is either HV with the first couple of minutes being EV or entirely EV. The former is artificially reducing the miles/kWh average on the drive monitor 2 by about 8% (currently at 4.7 mi/kWh), as it is mostly due to the AC working with the car idling at the beginning of the trip or when I'm just sitting in the car parked in the garage and going through the features or radio stations etc.

    That said, these are the actual EV mileage reports on the eco diary for all the actual EV trips (with no partial HV driving) so far:

    Code:
    date          round trip    A/C    driving conditions
    
    2020/11/19    4.3 mi/kWh    26%    high A/C load, battery not self-calibrated
    2020/11/20    4.7 mi/kWh    15%    high A/C load
    2020/11/28    4.7 mi/kWh    25%    high A/C load
    2020/12/05    4.7 mi/kWh    27%    high A/C load
    2020/12/12    6.2 mi/kWh     9%    lower A/C load
    2020/12/19    6.9 mi/kWh     3%    even lower A/C load

    The first four values were before I figured out to set the A/C near the ambient temperature and the very first value may also have a battery self-calibration effect.

    I estimated the EV range to be ~ 43.0 miles for the last round trip (reported as 6.9 mi/kWh). This corresponds to a 100%-SOC battery energy of 6.23 kWh, which is a tad bit lower than what I used to get for my 2020 Prius Prime on the Chargepoint level 2 charging stations when the battery was brand-new (the latter being ~ 6.4 kWh); so, it makes perfect sense after you account for the charging efficiency.

    This is the battery capacity of the Prius Prime:

    total battery capacity: 8.80 kWh
    reserved for EV driving: ~ 6.23 kWh (~ 70.8%)
    reserved for HV driving: ~ 2.57 kWh (~ 29.2%)


    In summary my current gentle-city-driving round-trip (no altitude change) EV range and mileage with low A/C load are 43.0 mi and 6.9 mi/kWh, respectively. I will see if I can improve it to or beyond 45.0 mi and 7.2 mi/kWh, but that will probably be difficult. Perhaps it is possible in the summer months. The current daytime ambient temperatures are around 70 °F.
     
    #51 Gokhan, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  12. luiset83

    luiset83 Member

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    Unfortunately due to the NHTSA law, it is no longer optional to adjust the volume on the 2021 Prius Prime:
    NHTSA delays date for hybrids, EVs to meet noise rule with tech like bumper speakers - Repairer Driven NewsRepairer Driven News

    I even checked on the latest Techstream with my Mini-VCI harness and there is no such volume changing option. The Vehicle Proximity Notification System ECU tests on Techstream let you emulate the sound that is output at the various speeds and reverse, but there is no option to disable or lower the volume, as it is now required by law.

    The reverse is indeed the loudest. I've seen other posts on RAV4 forums where some replaced the speaker with a power resistor, not sure if I want to bother with it. Either way if you hit a pedestrian with or without the 'mechanical wind' sound you're screwed anyways...
     
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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  14. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I don't mind the proximity warning sound at all. I was worried that I had a whining transmission, but once I found out what it actually was, I was A-OK with it. It is better to be loud than quiet and it hits a person or an animal.
     
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  15. yaun

    yaun Member

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    I noticed the same thing on my 2021 LE and was already planning to go back to the dealer to have them check out the transmission. Glad I found this thread and it's just a speaker. It's quite an annoying sound though. I wished they could have made that a little more engine like rather than alien space ship.
     
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  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Once you know what it is, you get used to it. ;)
     
  17. mrdata71

    mrdata71 Member

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    I love the color too. I have a 2020! I have gotten up to 35, but yes during this cold season it has gone down to 26. I keep mine in my garage plugged to an L2 charger at all times. What made you upgrade to the 2021 other than the color?
     
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  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you are driving the car every day, it should be OK. But Toyota recommends disconnecting the charging cable after the charge is complete to prevent draining the 12v battery.

    upload_2021-1-15_7-59-30.png
     
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  19. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    You beat me to it. :D
     
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  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It was primarily the lack of the blind-spot warning on the XLE. Trading in the old car hardly cost anything, and the 2021 Limited is a much, much better car than the 2020 XLE, with TSS 2.0 having been vastly improved over TSS 1.0. Last but not least, Blue Magnetism is a vast improvement over Classic Silver Metallic!