evolution vs creation vs Intelligent Design

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Apr 17 2006, 08:36 PM) [snapback]241203[/snapback]</div>

 

The followers of Christ are a "peculiar" people. We are told that. We are not perfect, only forgiven.

I see claims of judgement, but I see not judgement. If you bring a lantern into a dark room, are you accused of what you see there. No, only that you brought the light to reveal what was already present.

You who fear the light, fear it because of what it shows. Stating a point usually only causes offense when people see how that point affects them.

It is funny that someone would say "send your god to me, I await him". What, pray tell, are you going to say or do when He does come? Oh ait, you won't say or do anything for EVERY knee shall bow.

No one here is doing any judgeing at all, that role is left to the Creator.

Jesus did not "embrace" evil in the sense that some of you are implying. He would teach and tell the sinners..you are forgiven, go and sin no more, just as he still does today.

I appreciate the efforts of some of you to listen respectfully. A couple of you here take some of the words here like acid on your skin. There IS a reason for that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Apr 17 2006, 09:47 PM) [snapback]241244[/snapback]</div>

Please explain when/where/how anyone implied that Jesus embraced evil.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Apr 17 2006, 08:47 PM) [snapback]241244[/snapback]</div>

says you. i bow to know god.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Apr 17 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]240913[/snapback]</div>

I think you miss my point. The text does not say if God did or did not ask Cain and Able to give an offering; however, the fact that an offering was given by both of them, independently, is strong evidence that formalized worship did indeed take place.

In the case of Abraham, God did indeed direct him to make a "burnt offering", and there's no evidence Abraham said "huh? what's that?" Instead, he prepared an altar for a "burnt offering" as the Lord commanded, and then Isaac said "the fire and wood are here, but where is the sacrifice". That's strong evidence that ritualistic worship existed in those times.

We have much to learn from the people that book is about, so I propose you ask a Rabbi (or even our own AmerIsrealPrius ... if I got that right ... when ritualistic worship entered into their faith. Our 20th century notions of the ancient Hebrews are often found wanting by those who actually know about them (been there, bought the crow to eat.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ Apr 17 2006, 10:29 AM) [snapback]240968[/snapback]</div>

Well, you can play semantics all you want, but just as science has its own discipline, so does theology. As ignorant as you think the Creationists and ID people are, you appear just as ignorant when you attempt to "explain" what religion teaches. Learn what religions actually teach before you say what they teach.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Apr 17 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]241066[/snapback]</div>

Are you really equating those 4 names as equal?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Apr 17 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]241203[/snapback]</div>

Thats ok, you can "say" anything you want.. that doesn't give any power to making a false reality real.

(Rom 3:3 KJV) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

(Rom 3:4 KJV) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar


I don't blame you for not believing..... If I had not been in the places I have been and seen the things I have seen and experienced what I have experienced, I probrably wouldn't believe either..

I'm sorry to say, I dont' think I would fall into the group that believes without seeing.

Based on what most of us see in this world today, all the injustices, and all the pain and turmoil, its hard to see the good working underneath sometimes.

(John 20:29 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


I am eternally ruin't... I could not tolerate going to a dead church or only hearing about God and never experiencing Him for myself.

Kinda hard to settle for dog food, once you get used to steak.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Apr 17 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]241146[/snapback]</div>

Good reply Windstrings I would also like to add. . .

Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Rev 16:14 For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.

Rev 13:13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,

Miracles and signs are not only the purview of God but of Satan also and many will be deceived by the working of these miracles.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Apr 17 2006, 08:36 PM) [snapback]241203[/snapback]</div>

Now wouldn't it be quiet in here if we found out RonH had like a heart attack or something just before 12AM PDT... h34r:



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 17 2006, 08:47 PM) [snapback]241211[/snapback]</div>

Dude, trolling on the religious is really low...

 

The Devils biggest power is to stay invisible as much as he can... when he reveals himself, he overplays his hand. He is a coward and a lyer. He never picks on those who are a formidal foe who will stand up to him, but he seeks those who will fear and cower because he knows he has not real power or authority other than trickery and deception. Although he is still a spirit being and is not limited in the same fashion mankind is, he still has no place to call his own and rest his head except hell.

He doesn't even have the ability to roam to and fro in the physical plane unless he does it in a body he has gained authority over.
All of his claws have been removed as well as his teeth. The only people he still has an edge over are the ones who still live in death and have not accepted life.
He is a wuss in the pure sense of the word.
Its funny how only "one" angel will bind him forever into everlasting fire when his time is up.

The bible differentiates between miracles and lying wonders... God never does lying wonders and the devil cannot do miracles.

The devil has no handle to impart life, the can only give back what he has taken first.

As you have seen recently in the classic movie "The Ten Commandments", you see both displayed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 17 2006, 05:47 PM) [snapback]241211[/snapback]</div>

It sounds like you probrably do....... Its not me you need to fear.. I have no power over your life and neither do you.

 

First, it's nice to know that others with a personal relationship with Jesus also drive Prii. Secondly, to me religion is the problem. Religion is man trying to reach god (or self) by his own methods and choosing. Christianity is God reaching down to men wanting a relationship. God's relationship is a free gift that cannot be earned, but must be desired above everything else. If you're handed a birthday gift from your best friend, for example, and don't open it, you've rejected the gift and the giver. If you truly want to know if God is real, simple accept His gift by believing in Him right where you are. It's ok not to know what to expect. Just trust that He loves and cares for you, and you will enter into a relationship that will make you truly come alive.

 

Whoo Hoo something other than politics to talk about!!

I haven't read every post in here as I came in late but just a few points I would like to throw out.


Irreducible Complexity
An irreducibly complex system is defined as one that could not function if it were any simpler, and therefore could not possibly have been formed by successive additions to a precursor system with the same functionality.

Spontaneous generation
The emergence of life from nonliving matter has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the law of biogenesis. So even with the world now teaming with life in a myriad of forms and with some scientist using living matter on one side and non-living matter on the other side emergence of life from non-living matter has never been observed.


The Gap (not the clothing store) <_<
While evolutionists continually clamor for evidence of a Creator they never apply the same evidence standard to themselves. Take for instance the gap that the evolutionists never want to discuss and can’t even begin to explain; The unbridgeable gap between single-celled and multi-celled animals.

Cells in a multi-celled animal are designed to do a specific job and cannot be used in other systems or with other cells in the body. In other words a blood cell can’t digest and a nerve cell can’t carry oxygen. So next time you meet an evolutionists ask them how could a single-celled animal evolve into a multi-celled animal without leaving a trace. For nowhere in the fossil record or the living world is there a single example of a two-celled animal, not one. There are numerous examples of single-celled animals and numerous examples of multi-cellular creatures exist but not one example of a two celled, three celled, four celled, animal, has been found.

How can a ration person make the case that a multi-cellular creature in one enormous evolutionary jump bridged that gap? But without that happening, the evolutionary theory falls apart. Evolutionists offer no evidence to explain how this change was supposed to have happened they simply ignore this fact.

Therefore using the same logic as the Bush Bashers concerning WMD's and Iraq on this board we would have to conclude that evolutionist are Liars. Oops! Well there it is politics! I apologize I will try not to let that happen again, shameful really.

Also God does not ask us to form a blind faith in Him, In fact he says. . .

Isa 1:18 Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: . . .

Also we are afforded during the 1000 year millennium, a chance to see all the evidence and in effect actually judge God and see if His Judgments are just.

1Co 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. . .

Rev 14:7 And he said with a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of [H]is judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water."

[H]is supplied by me it could easily be read both ways but think about it. If there is a time when the Door is shut as in Rev 22:11

He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.

It implies that God’s judgment is done and all the living and dead have been judged. So then one asks who is left to judge after Jesus comes to do God's strange work? The only one left is God and we will for 1000 years investigate His decisions and come to see that all is well and we have placed our faith in the hands of a Just and Loving God. Sweet eh?

So this seems to be a no brainer to me, read the Book and follow what it says (not just one or two passages taken out of context) but the whole book! As it says in . . . Isa 28:10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little. Use the whole Book not just some section or verse to build your faith on. In the end you will have lived a pretty good life and if there is no God so what? But if there is a God BINGO BABY you have hit the JackPot and your reward is eternal life where all tears have been wiped away

Wildkow.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Apr 17 2006, 10:53 PM) [snapback]241371[/snapback]</div>

Good point and absolutely true, however, I do believe he does have some power as both Paul and John address this fact and . . . Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing judgment, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Don't think you can do that without some power. There is also another mention of Angels striving with devils in the Bible but I can't remember where, other than when they were cast out of Heaven.

Wildkow

 

When every WARMONGER starts quoting the Bible that says it all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 18 2006, 01:28 AM) [snapback]241358[/snapback]</div>

I don't play semantics, I try to show a dichotomy and ambivalence that spreads around here with people quoting Bible and claiming that their chosen GOD is the the only one. Marginalizing, demonizing, condemning other beliefs without any pluralism or respect to other faith. Narcissistically putting themselves above others by doing so. Resonating with arrogance and hubris whenever asked for explanation.

I have never tried to EXPLAIN what a given religion teaches, this is done by those quoting Bible or other holly scriptures here. I'm on the other hand trying to indicate that those religious denominations perpetuate division, hatred etc. Did windstrings ever show tolerance to other faith, NO! He claims that only his religious choice is the righteous one by blatantly demonizing everybody else and speaking of other faith as "that kin" How in this complex world we'll strive for PEACE, when one starts to condemn and label people as heretics, evil? Where are the conciliatory notions on the part of those who so eagerly throw verses around? Using religion like another WEAPON is what I get so far, in the same vain as "either you are with me or against me" a form of absolutism!

"Learn what religions actually teach before you say what they teach"

How can one be a speaker for all religions when one religion contradicts the other.

Do you know every single religion on this planet? Unless you subscribe to the thought that there is only one religion, perhaps your brand in particular.

Besides copying and pasting Bible with archaic English is hardly educational without addressing a proper explanation clearly for the uninitiated.
Leaving the quotes unexplained is very arrogant and intimidating. Also an easy tool for placing yourself above those who may not comprehend a given verse, form of religious elitism.

I can start quoting form Ramayana, Sanskrit or any other scripture and I bet average person will have no clue what a given phrase supposed to convey.

Where is the exemplary ecumenism among the posters here?

RELIGIOUS FANATICISM is what I get.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ Apr 18 2006, 08:21 AM) [snapback]241409[/snapback]</div>

Lotta that going around here...

...it ain't only religion...

...everyone wants to be number 1.

Now, why that is...

...is the question to ask...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Apr 17 2006, 09:55 AM) [snapback]240951[/snapback]</div>

So how does this make it okay to drop bombs from airplanes, killing a hundred innocent people for every soldier? Is it really, in your opinion, not murder if the killer (the person dropping the bombs) is far enough away that he doesn't know for sure exactly who his bombs will kill? He knows statistically that his bombs will kill more innocent people than soldiers, but if he does not know their names in advance, then, to you, it's not murder? Or if he feels in his heart that it's "necessary" to kill those innocent people, or if he does not really want to kill those innocent people, then his killing them is not murder???

Very curious interpretation!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MyPria @ Apr 17 2006, 11:27 PM) [snapback]241377[/snapback]</div>

WHAT????? You find out if there is really a god by just believing the first person that comes along and tells you there is???

Actually, I like your reply, because it shows how nonsensical religion is. Science learns about the world by observing it and performing experiments, then seeing if those experiments can be replicated. Religion forms its view of the world by just blindly believing the first idea that comes along.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 17 2006, 10:28 PM) [snapback]241358[/snapback]</div>

Shouldn't have done that; you're correct; they're not equal. Hitler, Stalin and Hussein weren't whores.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Apr 18 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]241605[/snapback]</div>

I love comedy :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 18 2006, 02:16 AM) [snapback]241387[/snapback]</div>

Are you trolling or just willfully ignorant. I'm not a scientist but 10 minutes of googling reveals:

Several speciation events have also been seen in laboratory populations of houseflies, gall former flies, apple maggot flies, flour beetles, Nereis acuminata (a worm), mosquitoes, and various other insects. Green algae and bacteria have been classified as speciated due to change from unicellularity to multicellularity and due to morphological changes from short rods to long rods, all the result of selection pressures.
http://www.talkreason.org/articles/section5.cfm

fungi: A group of organisms comprising the kingdom Fungi, which includes molds and mushrooms. They can exist either as single cells or make up a multicellular body called a mycelium. Fungi lack chlorophyll and secrete digestive enzymes that decompose other biological tissues.

McGinnis, William: Professor of Biology, University of California at San Diego. Discover (with Mike Levine) of homeoboxes, the sequences of DNA that are characteristic of homeotic genes, which play a central role in specifying body development. His current research uses both genetics and biochemistry to examine such questions as how molecular variations in the Hox genes that specify the head-tail pattern of an organism can generate variety in animal shapes during evolution, and what the molecular changes were that allowed single celled animals to become multicellular.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/...y/glossary.html

Your argument is just a variant on the "missing link" creationist objections to evolutionary theory. For your edification:
- yes, there are gaps in the fossil record
- the fossil record is only one set of evidence supporting the theory of evolution
- there is no fossil evidence contrary to the theory of evolution
- the theory of gravity has gaps in it, too. do you reject it in favor of the biblical theory of gravity?

Hope this helps.

 

This is why Satan cannot give life, similiar to cancer or viruses... "steals, kills, destroys"

Viruses can't even procreate... but they steal a cell and reprogram its mitochondria to make more viruses instead of cells and the viruses multiply with the engine of the cell until the cell finally burst and is destroyed.... tell me thats not demonic?

Exactly.... if God doesn't exist... all the pleasure at everyone elses expense and all the abuse and pain you have inflicted to others to furthur your own gain, will we wasted?.. Poof!.. your gone!.. you may as well have never existed, so whats the point of living for today and tomorrow we die mentality?
If you do that and you're wrong, you will be sorry or eternity..... a few moments and blinks in time in trade for eternity in torment.


On the other hand, if God doesn't exist and you do good all your life, and treat others as you would be treated and try to follow all the precepts of goodness and accept the grace and forgiveness of God that removes the power and curse of sin to control your life and you still die and go Poof.. then again, you've lost nothing because you may as well have never existed.

BUT if God really does exist...... you really screwed up to assume he didn't.

This whole idea that there is no God doesn't even make a glimmer of sense... even a child knows there is a God, as well as great learned men of great intelligence.. it becomes more and more obvious, the more you peer into space, either outer or inner into the atom and makeup of matter itself.
It is a trick of the Devil to believe there is not God for poor suckers who swallow the lie for convience sake to hide thier way so as to not be accountable to anyone.
The essence of pure denial, foolishness, and dimsightedness.
It is not "intelligent to not believe in God.
Most people do not believe because they are blind... if people can see, they believe.

Jesus never accused the world of being "stupid" for not believing... only blind.
Your eyes see into the physical realm, but your spirit man see's into the spirit. "if he's not dead"