Featured EVs have fewer repairs?

I'd have expected better from HEV owners.

True. The probability of having to replace something that doesn't exist, is non-existent. If you own an EV, you have a 0% chance of needing to repair your muffler. There no opinion on this, this is just common sense.

Yes, and some ICE vehicles are even worse. What's the point?

Nobody claims that a Tesla is a well built car. Every auto review and almost every owner says they love their Tesla in-spite of the poor quality of the interior. Tesla is a new company with no pedigree and they are learning on the job. They still make an excellent vehicle, but no it won't be as reliable as Toyota.

Also keep in mind many of those statistics are based on recalls, warranty work, and manufacturer provided upgrades. Tesla has repeatedly upgraded customers cars for free or a low cost in and out of warranty for little things that aren't broken, but that the customer wants to be the newest and greatest. That gives them a ding. Whereas when Ford or GM do not start a recall for things like the steering wheel column locking while moving down the highway or engine components bursting into flame because the vehicles are too old to count, there is no problem and no ding on the record. So take all those statistics with a large grain of salt.

Also a first generation vehicle with a learn-as-you-go frame. The i3 problems really aren't that common, but they are higher than they should be. Still better than lots of other cars and brands.

I didn't read the article you linked to but if you read the source articles you'll understand that this has nothing to do with Teslas becoming more expensive to insure. It is that the insurance companies had no idea what a Tesla was and treated it like a Volvo station wagon. You think a $100k vehicle is going to be more expensive to fix than a $30k economy box? Well the insurance companies didn't pick up on that. A Tesla is at a luxury price point. Not supercar or hypercar territory, but definite luxury. That costs more to insure. Nothing to do with it being electric as the repairs having nothing to do with it being electric. When you have a car with sensors and cameras all around, even a minor fender bender will cost thousands of dollars and the parts need to be genuine so that the signals don't get impeded.

Also need to get the facts straight on that. Rapid battery wear in high heat is true for 2011 and 2012 models and is well known. Battery chemistry changed in 2013 and the "lizard packs" have been holding up quite well.

But even with "8-bars" of capacity left, you can still do 50+ miles of city driving in the summer, more than most people drive in a day. So if you live in the middle of no-where and drive 50+ miles to everything and that is a "short trip" then your statement makes sense. And at that point a Nissan Leaf is the wrong vehicle choice for you.

You need to compare apples to apples. An EV version of an ICE will be more reliable. If the only change is the drivetrain, 100% the EV will outlast and cost less in maintenance. But the problem of drawing these conclusions is that very few vehicles are EV conversions now, they are whole new vehicles and as such they all have their own quirks and problems.

Most of our vehicles are hybrids and we love them. Added a BEV (Leaf) and it is now the daily driver. Every standard ICE vehicle I rent, sucks in comparison. Doesn't matter if it is the $8k "managers special" Chevy Spark or a $60k Mercedes E, if it is not at least a hybrid I am not excited about it and all the little things annoy you. Even the sitting at the light with audible engine noise or vibration. The luxury cars are good at minimizing it, but when your reference is zero, it is really hard to go back to anything even quiet. Next cars will all be BEVs and PHEVs.

 

modern cars are generally so maintenance free, owners complaints usually come down to infotainment and the like. but i'd shy away from german anything, unless i wanted to get to know the service manager on a first name basis.
as for ev's vs gassers, it's likely that repair costs over typical ownership are not significantly different.

 

Just a couple of thoughts:

• First model year problems - we've owned the first model year 2010 Prius, 2014 BMW i3-REx (end of lease), and 2017 Prius Prime. The 2010 Prius and 2014 BMW i3-REx had significant recalls and problems I was able to experience. The 2017 Prius Prime has so far been problem free.
• Third model year problems - the 2003 Prius had vehicle life problems that didn't really show up until at about 100k miles. There was the inverter pump, brake accumulator, and upgrade of the traction battery but otherwise maintenance free with the usual tires and lubricants.

Living in a 'fly-over' state, we have two plug-in hybrids and no interest in the BEV only vehicles. But I would have no problem with one if the charging infrastructure were more like the coasts.

Bob Wilson

 

As part of the "Dealer Experience" after signing the contract for the Bolt the salesperson asked me if I like to go back and see the service department and meet the sales manager. He though about it for a second after reading it off the GM checklist and offered... "well, that's probably a wast of time for your car isn't it"..... I just smiled!

The dealers know exactly what pure EV's mean to their service department and their bottom line

Official Bolt Maintenance Schedule.... not much in it for the service department!
I imagine other pure EV's will have pretty similar needs.

 

well, there's a big difference between 'problems', and maintenance. i can see less maintenance, but most dealers probably can't live on the mfg scheduled maintenance, and feel the need to tack on thousands of dollars of unnecessary work over the life of the car, some of which they probably don't even do.
if ev's ever catch on, i'm sure they will find many scams and schemes to defraud their customers with.

 

No doubt about the above!

 

I'm no mechanic, but I've heard it said that gassers have over 2000 moving parts. EV's have less than 20. If that is indeed true (or in the ballpark of truth even) then the simple math would suggest that they will need far less maintenance.

 

agreed, but amazingly, most gassers don't require any repairs these days.

 

It's a Toyota made in Japan. Enough said. That is the Prius. Repairs are by brand. Everybody knows the reliability of Japanese cars.

 

Oddly enough, my experience with Japanese made cars has been not so good. Nissan rust in 2 years. Honda 75k miles transmission. Honda within 30k miles 5 brake cylinders replaced and some other major stuff. Toyota Avalon made in the US and zero problems. Prius v made in Japan no problems. So can I generalize? No, samples too small to be meaningful.

 

We may be spoiled:

Bob Wilson

 

ya, i was thinking that after i wrote it. been driving toyota's too long i guess, lost my objectivity.

 

I think you had it right on the engine front. For most companies, they don't need much in the way of repairs these days. Same with transmissions. The Sable, that is now officially 16 years old, had inspection today, and just needed a muffler clamp. Other repairs for it have been the struts and the A/C compressor pulley. The Sonic has the mysterious coolant leak from members of its year, which is likely from the water pump, which GM has extended the warranty on.

In short, the issues I've had with ICE cars are ones that can also strike BEVs. Regular maintenance is where the BEV will beat the ICE, with there being less fluids to take care off. Then the regen brakes mean less wear and tear on the friction ones.

 

This. Times 5.

What is the source of repairs? Lack of quality, be it in design, materials or workmanship. Be found wanting in any of the three and you have issues and repairs. All three elements are founded on legacy and commitment to quality.

 

Agreed but there is one more aspect:

The Atkinson cycle 'derates' the engine, 50-60% lower power, which means less stress and strain. Furthermore, the control computers are very 'engine friendly'. So when I read about those who try to put super, turbo, or electro chargers to force more air in the engine soon run into the control laws that say,"Uh Oh! NO!"

Bob Wilson

 

All the issues for the Sable came down to years of use in the Rust Belt. I might have had to scrap a Tacoma under the same conditions

 

the tradeoff is battery degradation. and it's not repairable.

 

I would have counted a battery replacement as a repair. Then should we look at that as an engine or transmission rebuild. Wear and tear reduces the efficiency of those over time, but it is something owners choose to live with instead of repairing.

 

maybe by the time we choose to live with battery problems, there won't be any problems. most people don't choose to live with mechanical wear, they don't even know it exists.