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Excessive/Ghost Mileage after mechanic?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Johnsmith009, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    194,000km, aftermarket maintenance, oil changed regularly and never come in with low/significantly lower oil.
    I believe there was an official maintenance due at 120,000km that wasn't done, I had it done in January at ~189,000km and everything reported fine.

    Used for long drives.

    I've kept all the documents for the maintenances done since I got it in december, if you'd like.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i can't help but think it was something the mechanic did, but if you're convinced it is a coincidence, you can start playing whack a mole with off maintenance things like throttle body and max sensor cleaning, injector cleaning and erg circuit cleaning.

    you might also get tech stream or dr. prius and run a load test on the hybrid battery.
    did we discuss the 12v?
     
    #42 bisco, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Not sure what that could be. Here's a cheat sheet for the Canadian 3rd gen schedule. The booklet that came with the Canadian 2010's was so out-to-lunch (and covering all Toyota Canada vehicles, not Prius specific), this was pretty much necessity for me, lol:

    upload_2019-3-18_13-49-14.png

    I'll attach a pdf and excel spreadsheet.

    Interestingly, for 2014 model year Toyota Canada did quite the turn-around, a decent schedule:

    upload_2019-3-18_13-51-43.png
    (I've attached a more complete pdf version of the above)

    A few years later they completely stripped out the maintenance schedule, go figure. Fourth gen Prius, you need to go to Toyota Canada website, plug in your car stats, and they tell you, event-by-event, what's involved. Maybe on a slow day I'll go through it, make another spreadsheet. But I'm getting tired of the bs. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    As I did note, I don't think its entirely likely that its the mechanics fault.
    I did gun it very hard in power mode for 45km in stop-and-go traffic. Maybe something happened there?

    What would you recommend I try first?
    It's actually occurred to me I don't have the full maintenance list. I'll try getting it. Here's what I know:
    1. Oil service every 6 months - Done
    2. Maintenance Service every 24 months - Likely not done
    3. Replace cabin air filter 12 months - Done
    4. Brake service - N/A, Likely done at aftermarket mechanic. Had front and back aftermarket brakes on purchase.
    5. Brake Fluid Replacement - N/A, but most likely done
    6. Replace Super Long Life Coolant - Done
    7. Replace Iridium Spark Plugs - Done
    8. Replace Inverter Coolant - Done
    I'm not too fond of the lack of certainty/documentation, but honestly at the time I was just checking for a car in my province that met my specifications and didn't have any glaring issues. A 180k+ 2010 without the oil burning defect, no accidents, careful driver, no rust, passed preliminary inspection, and Dr. Prius score of 68? Sign me up. I had been looking since August, and nothing of that tier and especially not that price came up.

    I'm hoping she can get back with the records, but otherwise I guess I'll have to purchase a carfax.


    Here's my event log, figured I'd digitize it for self use, and if I'm doing that might as well post here as well.
    This is the life story as far as I am the owner.
    Its also worth noting at 02/01/19 they charged me for a gasket. No mention of gasket replacement though.

    01/29/19 - 190,031KM - Service for $265.53
    CONDITION:
    -Replacing coolant
    -Replacing inverter coolant​
    CORRECTION:
    -Completed

    01/29/19 - 190,216KM - Event

    -Slid into soft snow bank at 30km/h
    -No suspected damage other than snow pressing against undercarriage, right wheels were lifted off the ground

    02/01/19 - 190,387KM - Service for $406.52

    (R66 - Hybrid system software update; R22 - Safety recall campaign, installation of curtain shield airbag brackets;Asked to inspect for frame damage/misc from 01/29/19, none found)
    CONDITION:
    -Perform maintenance service
    -Replace engine oil and filter
    -Remove & inspect air filter element(replace if req.)
    -Lubricate locks, latches & hinges as nec
    -Confirm lights,horn, & wiper function properly
    -Check coolant,brake,automatic transmission & washer fluid
    -Replace iridium spark plugs
    CORRECTION
    -Remove four wheels and brake drums,check pad/shoe thickness
    -Examine brake calipers,wheel cylinders and brake lines for proper function,leaks or damage
    -Adjust rear brakes as required
    -Examine tires for damage and wear,check pressures and adjust
    -Rotate four tires and road test
    COMMENTS:
    -Front brake pads have good life remaining, they are aftermarket. Rear brakes need replacement, drivers rear outboard pad seized in holder and wore on an angle, will rub on backing plate soon. Tires have good tread left (winters). Battery tested good.
    02/03/19 - 190,394km - Event
    -Completely discharged 12V
    -Applied 2A of current for ~40 min with smart charger
    -Smart charger repeatedly reported failed battery, undervolted at 5v
    -Overcharged with 16A for 10 min
    -Car started, no 12V problems since
    02/16/19 - 191,962km - Event
    -Impact into ice bank
    -Loosened heat shields
    -Revved to 60km/h for a cumulative ~3 minutes
    -Parking brake on while spinning wheels
    -Strained wheels/suspension with turning them in ice bank

    02/16/19 - 191,979km - Service for $416.76
    CONDITION:
    -Customer thinks heat shield is damaged. Check and advise.
    CAUSE:
    -Intermediate and gas tank heat shield has come loose.
    CORRECTION:
    -Replaced both intermediate and gas tank heat shield.

    03/09/19 - 193,618km - Event

    -Largely excessive acceleration in PWR mode for ~45km, flooring from full stop, sometimes even until 130km/h reached
    03/08/19 - 193,618km - Service for $642.60
    CONDITION:
    -Replace rear brake pads/shims and service hardware/brackets.
    -Replace rear brake rotors, service hubs, and hardware.
    CAUSE:
    -Worn on an angle.
    -Rusted/grooved.
    CORRECTION:
    -Completed.

    03/08/19 - 193,618km - Service for $396.35 (Same day, separate invoice for finances) (Haven't received official document)
    -Replace rear right brake caliper
    03/09/19 - 193,618km - Event
    -Noticed excessive fuel usage for engine at low speeds/idle, suspected brakes, checked brakes on 03/18/2019, problem persisted
    03/18/19 - 194,440km - Service for $0
    CONDITION:
    -Customer reports noticed a huge difference in fuel economy dropping since rear brakes done, says he hoisted it and span the wheels, heard metallic rubbing noise from right rear, noticed left rear tire spins less/harder than right?? Check/advice.
    CAUSE:
    -Passenger rear backing plate is rusting off, cause of noise on right rear when spinning tire. Passenger rear tire spins faster than drivers rear due to brand new caliper on right rear. Drivers rear caliper sticks a bit but nothing excessive to the point where fuel economy would be a factor..
    CORRECTION:
    -Removed piece of rusting off backing plate.
     
    #44 Johnsmith009, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  5. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    I can attempt both, but it idles a similar time to how it used to without recharging the 12v, and EV mode seems fine. In fact, I currently try to drive in a way that it substitutes the engine wherever possible

    I'll try the engine fixes, but as mentioned, which should I try first?
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    don't try to drive without the engine, that kills gas mileage. i think a 12v test is in order first, it's quick and easy.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    start with some techron fuel injector cleaner
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Here's the official Toyota Canada Owner's Manual Supplement booklet (attached). Again, it's confusing, more so because it every Toyo Can model for that year, not just the prius. The attachements I posted above just attempt to summarize it. Beyond what Toyota's saying in that booklet, I'd recommend a tri-yearly brake fluid change, and very occasional transaxle fluid change, the first of the latter asap, then subsequent drains at long interval.

    I think they've really stung you on those rear brakes: over a grand and they're still dragging? I'd bet the inner pads will show bevelled wear, due to misassembly. The term "hybrid mechanic" gets tossed around, but doesn't mean much.

    A front or rear brake job should be around $250 at most. And should improve things.
     

    Attached Files:

    #48 Mendel Leisk, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    For some reason we can't get it up here. Used to be available, but no more. I think I read somewhere Chevron didn't want to hassle french tranlation or metric??

    I've been trying Canadian Tire (eh...) MotoMaster F1 Extra-Strength Fuel Injector Cleaner. With a name like that it has to be good. Does have PEA (PolyEtherAmide) which I've read is an effective injector cleaner. Say every 5~6 tanks.
     
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  10. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    How does it kill the gas mileage? Despite the atrocious mileage on ICE if I drive like that it can drop to 4.9.

    I'll do the 12v test. I'll grab a load tester tomorrow.
     
  11. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    That's what the tech recommended. I've never been one to expect outstanding results or repair from "add-on" solutions, mechanical or anything else in life quite frankly.
    Still, I guess I'll give it a go. I just hope it's not expensive, I'm already struggling to pay for the previous brake job and I need to be able to get tools to perform the engine maintenance.
     
  12. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Well, it's oem-grade repairs. I didn't expect that kind of a premium to be a reasonable price. As far as the rear right, I mean, it got 2 spins, right? And left caliper is sticking. They didn't replace that.

    Like we discussed, the brakes haven't been on that long. I don't think signs of wear or rust will be very prominent after a week, nor do I have any way of seeing them.

    If you could link me instructions on how to get to the inner pads/what to look for/what to take a picture of, I'd gladly do so.
     
  13. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    I'll try that.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Brake info is in the attachment on post #5 (page 1).

    Without disassemble you can just see a little of the inner face of the rotor. Crawl under the car (there's just enough clearance without raising, and shine a light at the rear side of the brake. There's a little gap between the shield and the caliper, to allow you to see a thin strip of the caliper inside face. if you're seeing about 50% of the width rusty, and the remainder shiny metal, that would indicate a misaligned caliper piston, and that would be the dealership's error.

    More overall view, inside of left rear:

    IMG_0207.JPG

    And closeup, note full width of rotor is shiny, indicates uniform pad pressure:

    IMG_0206.JPG

    And here's what the rotor looks like (after some time) with misaligned caliper piston. Note the rusty zone; this is where the pad is not making contact. This condition will also cause relentless drag:

    upload_2019-3-18_23-0-43.png

    In this the caliper and the pads have been pulled off, gives a much better view. I believe this is right side.
     
    #54 Mendel Leisk, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when you discharge the battery, the engine has to run more to recharge it. it's not something you will be aware of, but if you did scientific testing of continual draining the battery vs pulse and glide technique, you will see a vast difference
     
  16. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    I do understand that it has to run more *frequently* to recharge it, but my current understanding is it wouldn't at all cause it to run more *intensely* to recharge it. Is that incorrect?
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, that sounds right, although, i don't know the specifics, and have never read anything either way.
     
  18. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Bought a load tester. Without it on, battery measures at 12.6V (good health). With it on, battery measures at 9.8V.

    I don't understand these numbers.

    12.6 seems right if not optimistic, but 9.8V the car shouldn't start. Which one of these is correct? DSC_0185.JPG DSC_0186.JPG
     
  19. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    1553012672138.jpeg

    I've bought a 350ml. Directions say "Add 350ml at full up, tests up to 80L". Comforting. The Prius only has 30L, doesn't it?

    How much do you put? Also, when? Empty tank before fillup?
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Tank is 45 liters. I did the math once, there's confusing numbers on the back, I recall it was approx 85 cc for the Prius tank, say make it 90 cc.

    The instructions say to run the tank near-empty, then add the required amount at gas station, then fill up. I don't see the point of "near empty", especially if you're not doing this every tank tank, just (say) every 5th or 6th tank. I'd think as long as the gas gauge is down at least to about half, if you add required amount (90 cc) and then fill the tank, it's gonna be plenty mixed in.

    I found a small bottle with longish neck, marked a 90 cc mark, pre-fill, and take it along when getting gas. Here's the instruction on the back of mine, not the friendliest, and a strange hodgepodge of imperial and metric:

    I oz product treats 16 liters fuel.

    There's 29.5 cc in a US (volumetric) oz. So doing ratio equation: 16 is to 29.5, as 45 is to, I get this:

    upload_2019-3-19_9-47-16.png

    Say 85~90 cc

    If you'd prefer to measure it out in oz, it'd be 2.81 oz, say 3 oz.

    upload_2019-3-19_9-49-24.png

    I had an extra one of the old China Lily glass bottles kicking around (they are hard to find btw), elected to use it. Playing around with a scale, I found filling it just to where it starts tapering in is the correct amount:

    upload_2019-3-19_9-53-59.png

    Definitely not a safe container, being glass, but I'm very careful with it, keep it bagged in plastic, upright in the bottle holder in driver's door.
     
    #60 Mendel Leisk, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019