expected lifespan of battery?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by jbhybrid, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. jbhybrid

    jbhybrid New Member

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    Not an owner yet. I am considering a Prius Prime. I've never owned a hybrid or EV before, have only driven traditional gas cars. My 11-miles-each-way commute just fits inside the advertised Prius all-electric range of 25 miles. There are also chargers at work but seldom any open, unless you arrive very early. However I am confused about how long I should expect the battery to last at its factory rated performance. Toyota's official Prius Prime FAQ says only this:

    Q: How long is Prius Prime’s battery designed to last?
    A: The battery in Prius Prime is designed to last for the life of the vehicle.
    I do not feel this response is useful without knowing the expected life of the vehicle in units of actual time, like calendar months and years, and what % capacity loss Toyota considers acceptable. I have read that lithium-ion batteries in general last 300-500 charge cycles, but that would mean only two years of daily all-electric use. I assume the charger manages total % charge-discharge to extend life, but by how much? I know older Tyota Prius models still run today but AFAIK they used a totally different battery type (NiMH, not Li-ion) and the Prime model seems brand-new without any real history to judge by. Thanks for any assistance!
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    there's no detailed data, and some of us pip owners have lost as much as 15% over 5 years, while others claim no degradation. it definitely is larger in the first year, and then the degradation seems to go down each following year.

    total lifespan is likely 10 years/150,000 miles, that is the carb warranty. some will likely fail before that, but most after. no way of knowing. 175k, 200k, and up. luck of the draw, but also the climate they are in, how they are driven and the care they receive.
    also, the percentage of ev/hv driving.
     
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  3. ForestBeekeeper

    ForestBeekeeper Active Member

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    I think I would expect 200,000 miles.
     
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  4. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    It is mentioned in the owners manual (free download from the TIS site). I'm "paraphrasing" here, but they indicate it is a part that "wears", and is expected to loose some capacity over time eventually wearing out.
     
  5. jbhybrid

    jbhybrid New Member

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    Thank you for the reply. The Toyota Prius Prime brochure pdf on p.26 says: "Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles." I live in CA but I didn't realize that CARB gave me 10/150k coverage; that is nice to know.

    If the expected capacity loss is only 15% in five years, that isn't too bad. By that time I can probably find a new job closer to home :). Still a little vague on when the coverage actually applies as I gather the battery capacity declines continually. At some point it must be considered to have failed, but what is that point? Might it be 50% or ...?

    Thanks for the tip on the owner's manual, just got it... wow, 784 pages... that will keep me busy!
     
    #5 jbhybrid, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  6. CaliforniaPrius

    CaliforniaPrius Active Member

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    Most previous versions of prius taxis are good for 300K miles before the battery dies.
     
  7. jbhybrid

    jbhybrid New Member

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    That's amazing, I was not aware of that. Maybe I shouldn't be worrying, then. My current car (Honda Civic) is 17 years old and 165k miles.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    taxi's are not relevant to normal use though. very few 300,000 mile stories here. toyota will only repair/replace the battery if it throws a code. that basically means you could be driving around with an anchor, and they wouldn't care.
    that being said, it's like that for most plug in's, although, hyundai is offering lifetime warranty to the original owner. but not on degradation, i don't think.
     
  9. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    This question also came up with the regular Prius and Toyota gave the same answer of "for the expected car lifetime." Since that has turned out to be easily 200k miles in actual use for the vast majority of owners reporting their experiences, it gives me confidence that the Prime battery will have an equally long life.

    I *think* Toyota uses 160k miles as it's internal lifetime value but I am not positive.

    The 150k CARB warranty is not applicable in this case because we are talking about progressive range loss rather than failure.In a way, that should reassuring since it means that sometime in the distant future the Prime will "only" be a hybrid.
     
    #9 EV-ish, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  10. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    Just drive and be happy.....depends on what state you are in....you will have long time to save for HV battery once warranty is out...if you still looking to keep it....


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  11. Breatheintheair

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    My 2001 Prius went 12 years before the battery failed.
     
  12. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    There's still Gen 1 Prius putting around on their original NIMH batteries. Your question cannot be answered yet. Not enough data. I can tell you on a lithium ion 2012 PiP, I'm at 120k miles with 20% of that in EV. That equates to a little over 2000 charge cycles over 4 years. Not full charge cycles as Toyota does lot allow that. Battery degradation is around 15%. I'm going to say something else expensive on this PiP will go out before the battery does. The battery is one thing I do not worry about.
     
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  13. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    If you are first time to explore Hybrid car's.....
    I would suggest to try used
    BMW I3 Rex....12000 miles or less and 1+ year old you can have for less than half what new one was


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    Even if the battery lasts, the rest of the car does not. Unfortunately the reliability of the i3 has been poor and dealership repair costs are, well, what BMW owners pay.
     
  15. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    If you have 2015 or newer i will say that all problems where solved and from 2014 and up....
    I personally have I3 Rex.....2014 from my Father and beside all little recalls and some issues with tires so far i have never experience any big problems
    With 98000 KM so far......

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  16. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    A History of the Prius (and why we can't answer your question)

    Gen 1 (2001 to 03) used NIMH cells and they corrode under certain circumstances. As many as 33% have failed after 15 years.

    Gen 2 (2004 to 09) also used NiMH cells fixed to corrode less. About 5% have failed in 10 years

    Gen 3 (2010 to 15) used an improved NiMH cell and have been almost perfect in the US. (There are odd rumors that they do not do as well in tropical weather. I think they are FUD, but I do not live in the tropics)

    Prius PHV (2012 to 2015) the first LiIon Toyota. None are older than 5 years, so far they are apparently perfect.

    Gen 4 (2016 and newer) Some models use NIMH and some use LiIon cells, again they are so new no failures should be expected.

    Prime (2017 and newer) LiIon cells, less than one year old, so no history of failure.

    If you were asking how long your Prius Two's battery would last I would have over a decade and a half of history to predict future longevity and I would predict 25 years. Since you ask about the LiIon battery Prime, we only have 5 years of history, and virtually no failures. Any prediction we make is 100% speculation.

    You live in CA, so It is warrantied for 10 years and 150,000 miles. Toyota obviously expects them to really last that long or they go broke replacing them. That is the best I can do.
     
    #16 JimboPalmer, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  17. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    Were you the original owner?
     
  18. Breatheintheair

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    Yes. Best little car I ever owned.
     
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  19. jbhybrid

    jbhybrid New Member

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    Thank you for that excellent reply! Seems to be a very good track record. In my previous engineering job I had some involvement designing with consumer-grade NiMH and LiFePO4 batteries and their various quirks. A lot of things have to go right to get long-term reliability from that stuff (at least- from our apparently dodgy vendors), so I'm impressed with what Toyota has done.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and really, the whole industry has been very dependable.
     
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