Failed To Air Bleed brakes with Techstream

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by python777, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring


    I have a 2009 Prius with 335k miles. I know, right. :) I got it as a gift so I really want to fix it and use it as a commuter car.

    My brak actuator failed, the red Brake light, the ABS and Check engine light is on. I tried clearing the codes with Techstream (v13) and the car starts with no codes, after driving for a half a mile the lights go back on with a beeping sound and only the rear brakes work.and can drive on and off like that all day. When the brake light is not on the check engine light is off as well. The car seems to have no other issues than this.
    I have replaced both rear drum brakes with new ones so they brake well, but the computer still reads the code: “no pressure/abnormal fluid leak”.
    I tried to do a full brake flush with Techstream but after I remove the relays I get “air bleed failed”.
    I took it to the dealer today and decided to pay 150$ for a brake flush. They have said to save my money because the car needs a new actuator pump and brake flush wont fix it.

    I actually have the replacement pump and want to do it following the replacement thread here, but I cannot air bleed the brakes via Techstream. Any ideas why the Techstream doesn’t work? Or should I try bleeding the brakes manually in order to do this work?
     
    #1 python777, Oct 20, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2018
  2. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,900
    748
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You can search for the procedures on here PC. There are some good brake jobs.
    I have experienced similar issues with my tech stream too. What I do is after I'm done bleeding the front brakes as a conventional vehicle is done(by removing the abs motor relays to disable the rear brakes), I then reinstate the relays back, and bleed the rear.
    Since the tech stream always gives an error of not being able to bleed the rear brakes, here's what you do.
    1. Turn ignition to ON, not ready
    2. Remove rear wheels, and place on jack stands
    3. Have a help apply the brakes once to the floor
    4. Use a 8mm socket to bleed the air out of the system by loosening the bleeder valve.
    5. Do same for the other side, and you're done.
    6. The rear brakes are always difficult, if not done well.

    PS: always bleed brakes in the orientation recommended by your car.
    Bleed FL>FR; RL>RR pattern.
     
    txducker likes this.
  3. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Thanks for your reply Dxta. I have bled the rear ones by when I changed the drums last week. I put the car into the “invalid mode” by short switching the pins on the OBD.
    Since then the pump seems to be working 90% of the time and turning off less frequently.

    But reading other threads here I believe that there’s still a lot of air in the system and I want to bleed the front ones using the Techstream. I believe that by having no air in the system wouldn’t trigger the pump to switch off/reboot while driving.

    When I follow the steps on the Techstream and the step comes to
    turn the car off and remove the pump motor relays, after turning it on and clicking “next”, it just states Air Bleeding Failed and the list of steps to troubleshoot.
    Am I missing a step?
    Should the valve on the Front brake be opened before I select “next” on the Techstream?
     
  4. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,900
    748
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Forget the tech stream. I have encoubtered such problems too, when it gets to that stage it says "failed".
    You bleed the front brakes like a normal car.
    1. Get a helper, and have him pump the brake pedal several times.
    2. While you're at the front, locate the bleed nipple, and ask your helper to press the pedal to the floor, and hold it there.
    3. Use an 8mm socket or spanner to loosened the bleed valve, until the air bubbles in system comes out.
    4. Do this procedure several times with your helper until no air in the system.
    5. Clear the lights kit up on the dashboard, and you're done.
    6. Remember to always have enough brake fluids in the reservoir before and after bleeding.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    14,674
    10,308
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Hi ,

    It seems as if you're kind of ignoring what the car is telling you. It is not able to hold pressure, because there is a leak within your brake actuator. This does not have to be an external leak, where fluid escapes and you find it outside the car. It is more likely an internal leak, where one of the valves in the actuator is not closing completely, and fluid is leaking from the pressure accumulator back to the reservoir.

    There's no point in putting off replacement of the actuator until you can successfully bleed the busted one. That isn't going to happen. Better to go ahead, put a working one in, then bleed that.

    -Chap
     
  6. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Thanks Chap, the thing is that only one code is active after I cleared out the codes and that is “low brake fluid pressure”. Another reason to believe that the pump is not dead is that the brake improved after I did the bleeding manually this weekend. Now the light comes on even less ofter during driving and stays on for shorter intervals (15-45sec). Hell I did see a lot of air coming out.
    I’ll take the car to another dealership tomorrow to do a complete pressurized brake flush. If that doesn’t help, I’d try replacing the pump.


    iPhone ?
     
  7. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,900
    748
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Great. Keep us posted on your fix though.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    14,674
    10,308
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Yes, do keep us posted. And if you have a code come back, it is helpful to post the actual code—a letter and four following characters—which I don't see has been posted yet in this thread. The little one-liner descriptions you've been using might come up on the scan tool next to the code, but it's important to remember those are not complete explanations of what the code means and will often misdirect you. The best understanding of the situation comes from looking up the actual code's workup section in the manual.

    -Chap
     
    python777 likes this.
  9. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Hi all, so first things first. The battery on my laptop was dead so I had to replace that in order to use techstream etc.
    I did take it to the dealer for brake flush, they’ve said off the bat that the ABS actuator needs replacement and tried to get me to leave the car there for $3200 fix.
    No thanks.
    Next thing, I have bled the brakes manually (w/o tech stream). A lot of air and bubbles came out and I just did the front ones. After that, the drive was feeling better and the actuator was going off less often while driving - less of annoying beeeep sound.
    It was like that for a week and yesterday on my way home it was off for about 20min and beeping. So it got worse again.
    Today, I replaced the ignition coil since it had a misfire on coil no 1 and cleared that code. I’ve took a photo of the codes for ABS system. IMG_8857.jpg
    The codes displayed are C1252, C1256 and C1391, in this order.
    After I cleared the codes and drove it for a bit around the block it came back again but with one code only. IMG_8859.jpg - C1256.
    Meanwhile, I’ve downloaded some of Toyota technicians manuals to start troubleshooting or be ready to replace the pump.
    I will attach the short clip of the actuator sounds when the door is opened.


    iPhone ?
     
  10. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    2,909
    1,479
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Since you already have another pump why don’t you change it out and then try to bleed the brakes? It’s free and if the pump is the problem you will know.
     
  11. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,900
    748
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    No matter what you do, that actuator must be replaced. It seems like you like trying unrelated things, despite the obvious signs that the actuator of the brake isn't OK.
    Replace that abs pump! Don't keep wasting your time.
     
  12. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I kept on hanging on a thread of possibility that the pump might be ok but there’s not enough pressure or there’s air in the brake lines, hence the error codes. If the pump failed whould the car braking power be normal when the pump is on. Wouldn’t you think there’s a different issue? Like a solenoid or fluid pressure issue?
    I am affraid of replacing the pump because of the amount and complexity of work that’s why I’m trying to find if something else was causing this issue.
    Thank you for all your help and advice.

    Another question: does replacing the actuator require programming after replacement? If yes, can someone help out with the steps?
    iPhone ?
     
    #12 python777, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    14,674
    10,308
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    A few points:

    1. You have a Gen 2 Prius, so the pump is not anything you can separately replace anyway. In that generation, it is part of the brake actuator assembly, which is also where all of the solenoids and pressure sensors you may be thinking of are. You might, for intellectual reasons, be curious about further fault tracing down to one of those pieces, but in any case you fix it by replacing the assembly.

    2. Diagnostic codes have "detecting conditions" that are laid out in the manual in more detail than you might think. Even a code that has "pump" in the little fortune-cookie line that might show up on a code reader or in google, is not necessarily specifically about the pump. It's about the computer noticing something odd about the expected results of running the pump, which could turn out to be a sticky solenoid, wiring issue, etc. That is, a lot of the questions you're asking (and, better yet, the steps to answer them) are already written into the workup for the code, as you'd find out if you looked it up in the manual.

    3. There is another resource called the "New Car Features Manual", which is separate from the Repair Manual but available the same way. It's the place to find the basic overview of any system in the car, diagram of the parts, what it's there to do, and how it does that. You're asking a lot of questions of the form "well, if X were the problem, wouldn't the behavior be Y?" and those kinds of questions are very valuable in diagnosis, so it's good you're thinking that way. But for those kinds of questions to really help you, you can't be pulling them out of the air; you need to have the diagrams in front of you so when you're asking "wouldn't X really have Y effect", you are honestly looking at the system in question to see if it would have that effect or not. And when you do that, those sorts of questions can lead you very quickly to solving the issue.

    -Chap
     
  14. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Thanks for your input Chapman!

    I believe what you’re all saying is that replacing the ABS Assembly is easier than troubleshooting the old one.
    I guess I’ll go with that.

    Do I need to be subscribed to TIS to perform this repair? Any suggestions?

    FYI, replacing the ignition coil improved my fuel economy. I’m back to 42-44mpg highway.

    Thank yo’all for your help!


    iPhone ?
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    14,674
    10,308
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Well, it's not so much a matter of "easier", it's that you already have troubleshot as far as it's practical to go. Any further troubleshooting would be about actuator assembly subcomponents that you can't buy. Were you thinking to take one apart and repair it? It would be worth posting about such a project ... so far I am unaware of any success reports (or even attempt reports) of that on PriusChat.

    And if you really wanted to be the first to try to disassemble and repair an ABS actuator and then trust your safety to it, more time spent with the manuals would definitely be in order.

    On the other hand, replacing it should not be too daunting, as long as you're up to the rather lengthy steps of getting to it. I do not believe it has to be "reprogrammed". You might use Techstream to check the firmware version of any that you put in, just to see if it's the latest. I don't know if I would ever try to reflash one using a cheap dongle; that might be a step best left for a dealer visit, where they have the official Drew Technologies one.

    Cover all the brake line ends (with plastic!) immediately after disconnecting; similarly protect the ports of the replacement actuator until ready to connect the lines. Avoid any fabric gloves, shop rags, etc,, that could shed small fibers.

    The Techstream bleed procedure (the longer one for "after actuator replaced", if it gives you a choice) will be the best way to get everything set after the replacement is installed.

    -Chap
     
    blaisep and python777 like this.
  16. HBS

    HBS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    74
    56
    0
    Location:
    MO
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I was wondering if someone could lend me some advice (PLEASE) on a similar issue but with the exact same codes (C1252, C1256)? I am working on an '05 that had blown the 25 amp ABS-1 fuse and also the ABS-2 soldered fusable link. I replaced those and had the same problem so I replaced the abs actuator pump assy. (twice), the skid control ecu and the four abs relays and bled the brakes twice. The reason I replaced the abs relays is because the whole time there has been a recurring clicking noise coming from what seems like one or both relays. I've also tried the obd pin method to clear the codes several times. Any help or advice on what steps I can take to find the problem would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.
     
  17. michael etheredge kaspar

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    1
    0
    0
    Location:
    kaspargotgreen15
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    So I'm in a similar position. I have an 08 prius .I changed the drum brakes and in the process let the fluid out of the cylinders. I got the brakes back on and drums. If I bleed the back brakes only will thatthat be
    the fix
     
  18. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I just finished replacing the actuator assembly. I can tell you this was not easy as I expected. It took about 8 hrs and a lot of headache especially when I had to take old one out. The space is super tight. Reassembling was much easier. We went thru the bleeding process with Techstream which now works fine.
    But since it was dark I couldn’t do the bleeding properly. There’s still a lot of air in the lines as the car still reports low pressure codes.
    I tried it on the parking lot and it’s braking, but not as near as it was before. I’ll try to do another bleeding in the daylight.
    I also ran out of fluid and I stopped so we dont suck the air into the master cylinder.



    iPhone ?
     
    sorka and blaisep like this.
  19. python777

    python777 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    a little update here. So, I left the car where it was after the actuator replacement and a bleeding procedure (with Techstream). Judging that we couldn’t get the bleeding quite right the first time, I gave it a second try today.
    Guess what? “Failed to bleed via Techstream via Techstream” again. I wanted to smash the computer off the steering wheel, but I resisted and troubleshooted.

    Few codes were ON, but after clearing only one came back and that is C1343. I read somewhere that it’s a hydraulic failure code and it should be cleared after the bleeding.
    Anyhow, I called the dealer and booked the first appointment in the morning.

    I drove the car for a little to check and brakes worked fine and it seemed to be working much better. The ABS and Red brake lights came back on as soon as I pulled to the state inspection garage.
    I tried to clear the code but it was coming back, no crazy skid ecu buzzer this time.

    I was honestly afraid to drive it with air in the brake lines b/c I didn’t want to overload the new brake pump, but now I will have to. I guess I’ll let you know what happens tomorrow morning.


    iPhone ?
     
  20. wddanie

    wddanie Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    58
    8
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    How did the dealer repair go and what was wrong with your repair attempt? I have the same error codes and am planning my repair and am learning a great deal from your experience.
     
Loading...