Fake Regenerative Flashlights

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan 28 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]382167[/snapback]</div>

All in what you need. I'd rather have four hours of REAL light, when I *need* light, rather than an unlimited amount of feeble light. I find it hard to imagine a situation where I'll need more than four hours of light. And with the lights that I make, I can dial it down (down to something still about 4x the light you can get out of any shake light) and it'll burn for 16+ hours. That'll do for me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 29 2007, 12:24 PM) [snapback]382317[/snapback]</div>

Yeah and just plug it in for a recharge . lol

 

This was on a number of the blogs last year- there's a glut of these fake shake flashlights coming out of China.. If I recall, someone even found a manufacturer's link in China and they actually sell two versions, one that actually recharges and the fake version for a $1.00 less or something like that.. Princess Auto up here in Canada was selling these for a while and then did a big recall on them when it came to light that they were the fakes.. The recall notice might even still be up on their web site..

As for the batteries- most of them do use a small lithium coin cell- there are lithium-ion equivalents of most of the 20XX series of coin cells, but in a pinch, just putting a regular old 2032 in there would work just fine for a few hundred low-rate recharge cycles in one of these flashlights.. If you're careful, lithium primary cells actually recharge quite well- I do it all the time for those expensive AA lithiums- I've got a set that is at least 10 years old in an emergency radio that have been recharged at least a dozen times and they still work great..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c4 @ Jan 29 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]382339[/snapback]</div>

Just wear eye protection when recharging. B)

Seriously, though, what sort of recharge rate are you using?

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 29 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]382317[/snapback]</div>

The advantage is the shake light can sit forever in a drawer, and when it's needed it's there. No bulb to break, no battery to run down.

But the real point (and I'm surprised you, of all people, miss it) is that it's cool to have a gadget that's human-powered.

And with an extra minute or so of shaking, it's as bright as a regular two-D-cell flashlight.

Oh, and as for 4 hours: In North Dakota I had one power outage that lasted 4 days, and another that lasted two days, and a few of a day or a day and a half or thereabouts. What I actually used for light back then was a propane camping lantern. But in between uses the mantle would always disintegrate, so I had to be sure to have a supply of mantles, stored where mice could not get at them and chew them, though for the most part Leonardo kept the mice away.

But for a trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night, a gas lantern is a nuisance.

 

heck, mine works good and its very bright, lasts for 3-4 mins or so, after it gets going, only have to give it a 30 sec booster shake every now and then...not sure i want if for bathroom trips though, everytime i use it, gotta shake it for at least 3-4 mins just to get it going, it has no real long term storage in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 29 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]382618[/snapback]</div>

It does not hold a charge very long, but the flashlight can be stored for ten years, and still work perfectly well. And it holds a charge long enough that if you give it a good shaking-up before you go to bed you've got plenty of light for a nighttime trip to th bathroom.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 29 2007, 10:21 PM) [snapback]382618[/snapback]</div>

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Maybe you should see a doctor? :lol: Sorry I could not resist.

I just replaced my shaker light in my car for a hand crank light. Works a lot better in my opinion. Its a lot easier too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theforce @ Jan 29 2007, 08:59 PM) [snapback]382658[/snapback]</div>

REALLY! a hand crank is better than a shaker? (I couldn't resist either... )

On another front - are we starting to optimize our flashlights now? Kind of a Pulse and Glide for flashlights.... GEEZ.... :blink:

 

Daniel -

I don't intend to argue about anybody's choice of flashlight. If you've found what works for you, then you're set. NO need to justify it. OK... I can tell already that I'm going to come off sounding like a pompous nice person... and I've made peace with that, so I'll forge ahead.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan 29 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]382613[/snapback]</div>

I deal with Li-powered LED lights. No bulb to break, and it'll sit in the drawer for 20 years and still have 80+% of the battery capacity. And when you need it, you turn it on without having to gyrate. And you get useful light.

Yeah, you got me there, for sure. From an energy efficiency stand-point, disposable batteries are almost as bad as Fuel Cells! The lights that I use daily are using Li-Ion, however, so at least I'm not doing THAT bad. I agree that human-powered gadets are the way to go whenever possible... and the next bit I type will be a feeble attempt to explain why I don't use a human-powered flashlight.

OK, here's where I get all pompous...
1. No freaking way. Unless we have wildly different ideas of what a "regular 2-D flashlight" means. Yes, I've heard the claims, no they are not to be believed.
2. I have assisted in the design of and have built (in the hundreds) custom, bleeding edge LED flashlights for many years now. LED lights are one of my passions. To that end, I am an administrator on the world's largest flashlight forum. I live and breathe this stuff.
3. I get to fool with multi-thousand dollar hand-held lights that are significantly brighter than automotive high beams.
4. We use integrating spheres to determine how many lumens a flashlight can produce. The best shake lights pale in comparison to even the smallest primary cell lights we've ever made - much less D-cell size ones.
5. We can now produce 80 Lumens for a significant amount of time from a flashlight just slightly larger than a tube of chapstick.
6. When I'm in a situation where I want light. I want LIGHT. I have owned the latest and greatest human-powered flashlights. For what they are, they're great. For navigating to the bathroom at night, I'm all for them. For lots of high-quality BRIGHT light that you can conveniently carry around your neck or in your pocket, they aren't what I'm looking for. Try using one to look into the engine bay of your car when parked in bright sunlight, and you'll soon see one specific problem that I've faced before. Another is lighting up street signs from inside the car. Not possible with a shake light. Something goes "bump" in the night, and the last thing I'm gonna do is grab a shake light - I want the power of the sun in my fist, and I want it now. (now I'm starting to sound like a guy justifying his SUV just in case he has to drive on a gravel road some day! )

If nothing else, you can see that my perception of what a flashlight should be is VERY warped. I'm not your normal flashlight consumer - similar to how I'm not your normal automobile consumer. I often spend longer deciding which flashlight(s) to take with me, than what clothes to wear for the day. I'm THAT bad. And I make no excuses for it. Hell, in my spare time, I design uController-based user interfaces for lights and lanterns.

My whole house is lit with solar-powered (with battery storage) LED lights. I also have several LED lanters that I can recharge via the same solar system. And I have many (full) hurricane lanterns that'll burn for 18 hours each. Of course I also have about 40 flashlights of varying runtimes, all loaded with Li batteries - and spare batteries for everything. On top of that, we haven't had a power outage that lasted longer than 10 minutes for 15+ years, so I'm feeling relatively confident that I won't be pinning away in the dark any time soon.

OK... so I'm sorry about all this. I couldn't sleep tonight - and this was the result. And let me reiterate - I'm not trying to justify what I do, and I certainly don't need justification for the flashlight that anybody else chooses to use. If you found what works, then you're good to go.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Jan 29 2007, 11:38 PM) [snapback]382701[/snapback]</div>

Some people are crazy enough to modify Prii... and some are crazy enough to spend countless hours and money modifying flashlights. Yup.

 

There's a forum for flashlights???

Well, I'm just comparing to the old-style flashlights we used when I was a kid. And the shake light is fun.

I willingly concede that for serious applications your flashlights are superior.

So where can I get an LED light that will screw into a conventional ceiling socket and that will put out roughly 1800 lumens (i.e. replace a 100 W incandescent bulb)?

P.S. one of my pet peeves are the compact flourescent bulbs that put out about 1200 lumens and are sold as "replacements" for a 100 W incandescent. I want to switch to something more efficient, but I am not willing to accept less light than what I've got now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan 30 2007, 06:35 AM) [snapback]382757[/snapback]</div>

You noticed that too? I hate that... I usually have to buy 1 size up fluorescent to get the same light as an incandescent... e.g., 75 watt equivalent fluorescent (I think that's 15 watt) for a 60 watt incandescent...

It seems deceptive that they do that - or maybe its a different frequency - which appears dimmer to us... either way - I am still ahead with fluorescent - but I just get a bigger one than the package indicates.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan 30 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]382757[/snapback]</div>

The old-style flashlights I used as a kid were all rusty metal tubes used to store dead batteries.

Tom

 

well darrelldd, i take it you work for a company that develops low power lighting systems?? i agree with the LED light options. by far the most efficient way to get light. i wish they were more prevalent in the world. i do have a 3-d cell flashlight for the car that has a 7-21 LED light and it VERY bright. it puts out a very white light that is helpful. i admit to having one to use in case i need it while stranded in the car. have used it frequently (but not for my Prius... helping others) it uses regular duracells (or something similiar) have had it almost two years and its still very very bright. wish i could tell you the brand name of it... all i know is i bought it at GI Joes. (a sporting goods store)

but it does bring up the fact that makes this forum so valuable in so many different ways. the diverse experiences of the members here does give a lot of insight to so many different things.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan 30 2007, 06:35 AM) [snapback]382757[/snapback]</div>

22,000 members with 1.8 million posts. You betcha. Promise not to laugh (remember there are those who laugh at us here just because we find something interesting to discuss about the Prius!)
http://candlepowerforums.com/

You can't. But you will soon. The wonderful news is that LED efficiency just surpassed CFL efficiency about a month ago, and there's no turning back. CFL's have stagnated, and LEDs have increased their efficiencies by orders of magnituded in a few short years. Today we're looking at 80 lumens per watt in LEDs... and that is set to increase substantially by this summer. Can you imagine that?

I have experienced this, I understand why it is, and I don't like it either! The problem is that light is measured in photons. Not all photons are created equal to the human eye. Takes way fewer cyan photons to seem blindingly bright than it takes for, say, white. Cyan is right at the sweet spot for human vision. So the problem comes in where the bulb IS puting out those lumens being claimed (we hope and assume) but our eyes don't detect it the same as the incandescent wavelengths. So even though the bulb gives off as much light, we don't care, since our eyes tell us it is dimmer. Does that make sense? Some folks are like that with LED too. I can make a dome light that is 2x as bright as the incandescent it replaces, and some folks see it as being dimmer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 30 2007, 08:16 AM) [snapback]382808[/snapback]</div>

If by "work" you mean "make money" then sadly, no. This is mainly a hobby for me. I just happened to get involved with some very smart people, and the networking did its magic to the point where I'm good friends with the VP of engineering at Surefire. If you really like flashlights, and you haven't discovered Surefire yet, hang onto your wallet! These guys are serious, and make the weapon lights used by about 90% of our military personnel. These guys are the real deal. (surefire.com, of course)

I can show you enough pictures to bore you, but I'll try to refrain. Here's a page that shows that last lights that I had a hand in directly. These are 100% custom. Nothing off the shelf from the circuit right down to the reflector, the switch and rubber switch boot. OK, so we bought the O-rings and screws. A small group of us built and sold these to order. I won't tell you the price because you wouldn't believe me anyway. And the program is now over. I just have a few pieces left for maintenance.
http://darelldd.com/light/aleph.htm

I'll bet I know the very model you have. I have one too. Would it excite you to know that I've got a light here that is about the size of my thumb and almost exactly 3x as bright as that 3D light you've got there? Seriously.

Agreed! I'll again take this opportunity to again appologize for sounding like a pompous nice person! There are two things I have trouble keeping my mouth shut about: EVs and LED lights. Sometimes I FORCE myself to sit quietly and listen - so I can learn what John Q. Public actually "knows" about the stuff I'm steeped in every day. But man... I can't sit still very long! Thanks for putting up with me.

Say... we haven't dragged this poor thread off topic, have we?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Jan 30 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]382765[/snapback]</div>

Those are the ones I'm talking about, and why I like my shake flashlight so much!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 30 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]382869[/snapback]</div>

Sigh! Just like an EV that's a real car. You can't buy one, but you will "soon". :angry: :angry: :angry:


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 30 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]382869[/snapback]</div>

I'm talking about the rated lumens. A compact fluorescent rated at 3/4 the lumens of a 100 W incandescent is marketed as a "replacement" for the 100 W incandescent. I.e. they want you to replace one bulb with a dimmer one.

There is no such thing as a white photon. White is what we perceive when there's a broad spectrum of photons.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 30 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]382869[/snapback]</div>

No, the problem is that a 100 W incandescent bulb puts out 1720 lumens, and the last time I checked (admittedly a while back) I could not find a 1720 fluorescent bulb that I could screw in in place of my incandescent bulbs.

A source of such bulbs would be greatly appreciated.

 

there is a series on the Science Channel called "2057". it portrays its estimate of how life will be 50 years from now. each show depicts different segment of life like medical, city life, home entertainment, etc. its pretty cool and they had a small segment talking about houses that come installed with thousands of LED all computer controlled to turn on the right light level after determining the preset preferences of the person or combination of people in the room at the time. zone lighting plays a huge role enabling a family of 4 to sit in a single room and each have the room lit to their tastes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 30 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]382869[/snapback]</div>

Sodium vapor lamps are a good example of this. They look bright, they put out a lot of light, but you can't see anything with them. Their spectrum is way off to the red side, where human eyes work funny.

Tom

 

Postscript.

After posting my above post, I found a local place that sells compact fluorescents. I'm going to check them out tomorrow.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan 30 2007, 11:34 AM) [snapback]382911[/snapback]</div>

But unlike EVs, we're actually waiting for the high efficiency LEDs to be invented still.

Oops! My bad. I misunderstood.

This one I understood. Didn't mean to imply that there were white photons at all. My point was that when we see a broad spectrum, our eyes perceive it as being "more" light than the same number of photons that are dancing along at a different wavelenth. Monochromatic light (as all LEDs are) does weird things to our eyes. Nothing like it in nature, so we don't really know what the heck to do with it. Eventually we'll be making "white" LED light with RGB. For now, we just coat a blue LED with yellowish phosphor and pretend that it is white. That phosphor blocks LOTS of photons, however. And going to RGB to make white will eventually be way more efficient. And you'll be able to dial in your "mood" as was mentioned before.

I have to laugh when a customer asks me for a "really" white LED. Everybody has a different idea of what white is. For some, an incandescent bulb is white. Well, here's an excellent example of an incandescent next to a "white" LED.