1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Fatally Disappointed--The Thread I never wanted to write.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by The Electric Me, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,796
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, my first reaction and attempts were trying a Retail Store, Meguiars Claybar on just one spot. It failed.
    I also tried a cleaner wax. It failed.

    Evidently 3 acid wash's were tried, they failed.

    At this point? I really feel that anything I could do myself is likely to A: Not work or B: Be intrusive enough that my inexperience could be potentially damaging. Over the years I wash and wax my vehicles, but always at the Retail hand application level, I'm not a "finish" expert, and as the aggressiveness of the treatments increase, I think the chances that I would do something inadvertently damaging increase.

    Therefore, I think the first step I take myself is to simply find a "hopefully" experienced and competent detailer.
    Basically, I want to take one more shot at getting the spots removed without reaching the level of repainting the entire vehicle.

    But I'm just going to take it one step at a time.

    If a detailer can remove them? Great. If they can't? Then I think I'm regrettably forced to escalate above that.

    But with everything that has already been tried, in the form of clay bar, and cleaner wax and 3 acid wash's, I kind of feel over the counter, self generated solutions are a step I'm beyond.

    Whatever these spots are? They are either coming up from underneath ( I hope not) or very, very deeply imbedded in the clear coat, and I believe they aren't going to be removed without a level of expertise and tools that I do not have. As much as I'd like to believe I could simply spray something on them, and they would disappear, it seems that approach has been tried in the form of the acid wash's, and it did not work.

    So in short? My next step is to find a "finish expert" in the form of a detailer.
     
  2. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    1,483
    137
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    They already tried with three acid bath and unsuccessful. What else they can do? This is not a paint defect and not under any warranty.


     
  3. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    649
    209
    0
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base

    I would only like to add here that IF you are interested in expanding your own ability to care for your vehicle's finish, this could be a good excuse to invest in the proper equipment that will both remove these spots and serve you for years to come, probably for the same money you'd pay a detailer. A random-orbital polisher will get the job done and is virtually impossible to damage the paint with (it is very important you use a true random orbital and not a direct-drive rotary polisher). You can't do any damage to the paint because as soon as you push too hard, the head stops rotating. It means that the pad and the product you apply to the pad does all the work. You can probably get everything you need for about $200, and you can use it to apply waxes and sealants in 1/2 the time as well.
     
  4. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,796
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    UPDATE:

    Well tried a well respected detailer last Friday. He tried all his detailing magic and could not get the spots to budge. It's really looking more and more like my only choice if I don't just live with the spots, will be a total repaint. Which really is an unfortunate reality for a vehicle barely 6-months old.

    I've done some local research and it seems for a "quality" paint job I'm looking at several thousand dollars. This is not a Maaco deal.

    Guess, I'm going to call my Insurance company next and see if this damage is covered under my comprehensive.

    Feeling a little sorry for myself I guess. Really felt my Prius was one of the best automobiles I ever purchased, but only got about 4 months of that "great" new car feeling before this nightmare raised it's head.

    I do take care of my automobiles. So even though everyone tells me an aftermarket paint job will not be as good as the factory, I still think if I get a quality job done, I can expect good durability, probably for the lifetime of the vehicle with me.

    It's just something, barring a major accident, that I never foresaw.

    But I've pretty much given up on the idea that whatever it was/is that got on my vehicle can be removed through any operation of detailing or cleaning.

    Just taking this still one step at a time. I'll let you know what I decide next.
     
    Prieth likes this.
  5. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    649
    209
    0
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Sorry to hear that!

    Do you know what methods he used?
     
    The Electric Me likes this.
  6. Maurice Reeves

    Maurice Reeves New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    1
    1
    0
    Location:
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Completely unrelated to the Prius or to pianos, but one time one of my children's toys broke brand-new out of the box, a material defect of some sort. On a complete whim, knowing the local store wouldn't help I called the manufacturer who had an office in Hong Kong. I reasoned that as a former British colony someone there would speak English. They did, sort of. It wasn't perfect, but I got the point across, was polite, and within a few weeks we got a replacement free of charge. Sometimes it pays to roll the dice and try something like you did.
     
    The Electric Me likes this.
  7. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    645
    223
    0
    Location:
    Nature coast, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    The Electric Me,

    I have always enjoyed reading your posts, and I am very sorry to hear about this outcome. I hope everything somehow turns out, okay...

    Good luck and keep us posted!
     
    The Electric Me likes this.
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,314
    3,588
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The Electric Me likes this.
  9. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,796
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Not exactly sure. This is a detailer in my local area that was very highly rated by Angies List, and other reviews. I don't really know, other than I thought the guy was fair, and seemed to know what he was talking about. Kept my car for about an hour, seemed disappointed that he couldn't give me better news. I probably should of asked him exactly what he did but I was disappointed.

    He never "guaranteed" me he could fix it, in fact, I waited until Friday so he could spot test an area to see if the could do any good. From his perspective, he has no agenda other than he can either fix it, or can't.

    I guess at this point I have little to lose, I could try another detailer...second opinion. But it's already been at the dealerships Body Shop for evidently 3 acid wash's with no affect. This detailer couldn't get them to budge. I've really lost hope that this is something that can be "buffed out".
     
  10. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    649
    209
    0
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base

    Hmm. Not to beat a dead horse here, but without knowing what was done, I would never consider going the extreme route of a new paint job. Most detailers know how to do little more than wash wax and vacuum. Most customers expect little more than that, so the resulting reviews might be perfectly fine. You really need to find out exactly what methods were used and how aggressive he got.

    To give you some perspective on a paint job, I would estimate to have even an acceptable job done, you'd be looking at $5-8k, and it would be nowhere near as good as factory, and likely start to show issues within 4-6 years. If it were me and I absolutely could not get those spots out, I would honestly far rather live with the original paint job and the spots than live with an average re-spray.
     
    milkman44 and jdk2 like this.
  11. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    751
    219
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I'd be very nervous about having a new car repainted for the reasons above. It will never look right after the paint job and you'll be forever wishing that there had been another way to fix it.

    Live with the spots. When you get ready to trade/sell, leave it dirty. They will most likely not even notice it.
     
    -1- likes this.
  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,796
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This is what I've heard.

    But whenever anyone say's the aftermarket repaint wouldn't be as good as the factory job, my reflection is that the "factory paint job" is showing little spots that look like rust all over it. So from my perspective, any paint job that doesn't show rust spots...is better. In other words, my factory paint job...isn't very good at the moment.

    Maybe a lot of people would live with the spots. Maybe I should. But I'm just not that type of person. On a new vehicle? It drives me nuts.

    If this was a 10+ year old beater? I wouldn't care, and I'd just call it "life". But on a vehicle 6 months old? It's unacceptable to me.
     
  13. John H

    John H Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    2,208
    557
    0
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    at $3-4k for a paint job I would just trade it in toward another new vehicle. If you can manage to get your insurance to pay the $3-4k great, but I wouldn't paint the car, just use the insurance payment toward the new vehicle.

    I would work with another dealer and perhaps even a different manufacturer for the new vehicle.
     
  14. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    645
    223
    0
    Location:
    Nature coast, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    The problem with repainting is that when they respray it and bake it, they can only raise the temperature in the oven to about 150F because of all the materials in the car. At the factory, the body is dipped and then baked at about 300F, before they add any components. This make a big difference in the longevity of the paint. The front of my 07 was repainted in the front and the clear-coat started to flake off at about the six year mark. However, the shop was reputable, and they repainted the front for free. If you do repaint, ask if they give a lifetime warranty. You definitely want that!
     
    The Electric Me likes this.
  15. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Yeah, nothing can compare to a factory paintjob. Nothing. Not only do they bake it on, they use electricity to attract the paint to the metal. I know of no paint shops that can do that either. If it were me, I'd leave the spots.
     
    -1- likes this.
  16. Bingee

    Bingee Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    210
    62
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    5 to 8 grand for a professional paint job , I would trade for a new ride ..
    I still go back to earlier post where you added som after market item and
    Shortly it had spots as well ... Me ?? After all this , would call my insurance company
    As it doesn't look like factory error , but ?? Chemical spray of some kind
    Good luck
     
  17. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    751
    219
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I'm with you brother. If it was mine, I don't know what I'd really do. I don't keep a car long enough for the $8K paint job to be worth it. But just the fact that it's annoying you so much is enough for me to think a repaint maybe your best option. As noted above, try to get a lifetime warranty so that if it does start to go south, you'll have the warranty to fall back on.
     
  18. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    649
    209
    0
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I'm still not convinced that the detailer really took the steps necessary to rectify the problem. Call him up and ask him for exact details of what he tried.
     
  19. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Yeah, I'm not convinced at all. There are so many options to deal with this.
    1) The spots do not appear to have penetrated the clearcoat to the color. A good body man could simply wet sand out the spots, apply a few coats of clear coat to the affected panel and be done. For that matter, you could do that. It is not hard, just time consuming. If you want details on how to do this, let me know.
    2) Just paint the affected panel. The whole car does not need to be painted. A good paint guy could easily match that paint. They do it all the time when an accident occurs
    3) the number one option I would personally try is to use rubbing compound to get the stain out (this will take some elbow grease), then switch to polishing compound, then to wax. Try me on this one, don't let someone else do it because then you don't know what they did. Doing this won't hurt anything. If you really want to put this behind you, do this and report back the results
    a) Purchase some rubbing compound and a microfiber cloth from your local APS
    b) Pick the smallest and lightest spot, using the cloth, rub some compound in a back and forth motion (press moderately hard at first then ease up once the spot starts to disappear) until the spot disappears (note, this will put scratches in your clearcoat)
    c) If this works and the spot disappears within a few (15-20) minutes, get some polishing compound and rub some polishing compound in a back and forth motion but at a 90 deg angle to the scratches (repeat 2 or 3 times until all scratches disappear

    If you use the rubbing compound for over 20 minutes of good effort, and the lightest spot is still there, its not gonna work and (refer to options 1) or 2). Either way, report the results back here.
     
    zhenya likes this.
  20. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,796
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I appreciate the advice.

    I did try a commercial clay bar. I did try Meguiars rubbing compound albeit not very aggressively as this was an early stage attempt.

    At this point, I've had 3 body shops look at it, and several detailers. The general consensus is "I'm Screwed". Whatever substance this is, it is very, very deep into the clear coat, or coming up from underneath.

    I have almost nothing to lose. I suppose I could try another opinion or attempt by another detailer, and/or a more aggressive attempt myself. I was more or less "forced" to be conservative at first due to the belief and hope that Toyota was going to cover this under warranty. In other words I couldn't very well go to the dealership or Toyota with the vehicle having huge rubbing compound depressions on it, plus the spots. Which left me at every step being as conservative as possible.

    However, I do have to say, at this point, well...one detailer was willing to "try"...but every "expert" seems to think I'm at the point of "living with it" or a "re-paint".

    If you saw these spots in person, they do not photograph very well, you'd definitely notice that they seem to be well into the clear coat or very, very deep. I don't feel any depression or rough edge where you would believe a particle or substance would "enter" the clear coat. Which is part of my disagreement with Toyota's definition.

    And actually the reaction from most body shops and detailers is of bewilderment...."I've never seen anything like this" is the most common refrain.