Featured FCEVs still not as hot as Tesla

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by orenji, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if consumers want a car to take them from point a to b comfortably, why are tesla sales so strong?(n)
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What were the other 149 car models that caught fire that day?
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    From the article:

    On November 24, a 2015 Model S caught fire after the owner heard a few loud bangs in the car.

    This would have the 18650 cells, the first ones Tesla built into large packs:


    We've seen similar fires in the Prius: Toyota Recalls Prius Hybrids for Fire Risk - Consumer Reports

    Toyota is recalling 192,000 of its 2016 to 2018 Prius hybrids sold in the U.S. because of a fire risk. Wiring in the front of the vehicle could wear over time and cause a short circuit, which the automaker said could cause a fire.

    The recall is part of a larger campaign that includes more than 1 million vehicles worldwide, the majority sold in Japan.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said that Toyota discovered the defect after a dealer in Japan reported "abnormal odor, smoke, and flames" from a customer's vehicle. One warranty claim in the U.S. may be related to the issue, the automaker said.

    Using the PriusChat search function, we can find similar traction battery fires:
    Prius 2001 battery fire | PriusChat

    The original post on this subject was in the Yahoo toyota-prius group, msg #89335. Today the LA Times covered it, as seen in Prius Online.

    I mention it here not to spread FUD, but rather that all owners of 2001 to mid-2003 Prius are supposed to get the SSC 40G battery resealing. If you have no idea what I am talking about, please contact your toyota servicer with your VIN.

    If you bought the car used and not sure of its history, open the driver's door and look for a small sticker saying "40G" above the curved black piece of metal that keeps the door from swinging open too wide. No sticker -> call Toyota with VIN.

    At present there is no evidence of link between this unhappy event and the battery resealing, either way. But the 40G is free and is supposed to get done.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "...the owner heard a few loud bangs in the car..."

    This could have been an object being run over, and piercing the battery.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    One wonders how much bullet proofing is needed for BEVs to survive salty roads.
    Not too much salt in Va. but Pa. different story
     
  7. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Since cold weather is not an issue on the West Coast, when one visits a supercharger in the dead of winter on the East Coast, how does one stay warm. Can one turn the heat on while charging?
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Yes, no problem.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    At supercharging stations I observe drivers visiting an adjacent establishment for a bite to eat and/or bio-break. If they need extra time, they are often chilling comfortably in their vehicle with heat or AC and catching up with videos on the nice sized display and immersive sound system. Some with kids (and even just adults) play games off the display.
     
  10. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Can run the heat in CCS charging cars, too.
     
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  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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  12. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    Toyota says BEVs are better suited for passenger cars than FCEVs.

     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Just as much as any other car.

    If the incidence of fire for a BEV, or just plug in, was any higher than traditional cars, I don't see how we could have missed hearing about it with the vested interests against them.

    Did I miss something something about road salt or corrosion being mentioned elsewhere in the thread?

    Thanks, I got my number from here: More Than 150 Gas Car Fires Per Day — Can We Please Get Serious About Electric Car Battery Fires?.

    He actually corrected it to the wrong number. "Each year" had been cut off from a line from the source report, leading to dividing a yearly average into three.
    The box plugged into the car at 1m11s caught my attention. It lets a plug in or FCEV be used as an emergency or outdoor power supply. The output is 4.5kW, and it plugs in through CHAdeMO. So the Mirai's PTO has been moved from the trunk to the engine bay. I don't think we ever got that option for the US Mirai. The non-portable versions that could run a house were in the $6000 to $10k price range years ago.
    https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/product_news/new173.html
     
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  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Interesting but that was somebody not Toyota paraphrasing what they think Toyota feels
     
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  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I saw that headline go by earlier, but didn't look in to it, even though it was lower than figures presented here in past years. But now that you bring it up again, I also clearly see that the "correction" is the incorrect part, the uncorrected original was good. The FEMA source works out as almost 470 per day.
     
  16. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    U2 the Band actually powered their entire concert in Japan with the uses of several Mirai that they plug into. This was a promotion of the Mirai at the time, sponsored by Toyota.
     
  17. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    AND...the hydrogen came from?

    Mike
     
  18. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    There are 2 distinct problems: production of hydrogen and consumption of hydrogen to satisfy a need. This event seems to be focused on educating the public on the latter. And that's OK.

    If you're wondering if the production of hydrogen is dirty, it probably is currently. So is the production of electricity. So is transportation involving burning of fuels. The idea is to clean all of these different sectors.
     
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  19. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Probably about 0% of H2 comes from clean renewable sources today.
    But for electricity we have some nuclear, large hydro, wind and solar...TODAY.
    And any homeowners can buy a BEV and solar for their roof...TODAY and many have already done this.
    No one is installing their own electrolysis machines at home connected to their solar panels to power their FCEV.

    I could be wrong, maybe someone has.

    Mike
     
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  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    you have this guy
    Inside the Solar-Hydrogen House: No More Power Bills--Ever - Scientific American
    You do have a 3 year DOE/UT/Industry program where electrolyzed wind and solar, and SMR biogas (methane from a landfill) will run a fleet of mirai to try to bring costs of green hydrogen down.

    While a tiny percentage of hydrogen comes from green sources (less than 1% iirc), its about 40% of california's subsidies hydrogen. Of course if we care going to falsely claim that california's plug-in fleet runs on east coast coal, I guess the hydrogen must too ;-) OF course Japans hydrogen is powered almost entirely from imported fossil based production.

    Many of us can much more easily do what I did. Work with a local utility and local installer to put up grid tied solar, and buy a off the shelf plug-in. I don't have the space or budget to do hydrogen, and my car can travel across the country unlike hydrogen cars.

    I don't think there are technical barriers to making hydrogen vehicles green. The barriers are financial and logistical. Maybe in just another decade technology will make things more affordable. Japan and Korea are the experiments to watch. They look to be willing to spend the $10B or so minimum to try. I don't see the incentive in the US, when California can't even get a small system running without major headaches each year. It seems that every year the timeline to get to x number of vehicles increases a year. In 2009 - 50,000 fuel cell vehicles were promised by 2015. Now its 2023. I guess that is unfair, in 11 years the estimate has moved back 8. Progress.
     
    #20 austingreen, Dec 21, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
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