Feds blame hybrids for clogging HOV lanes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 04:16 PM) [snapback]495557[/snapback]</div>

First of all, I am not your pal.

Secondly, I stand by my statement that "... no Mensan has ever claimed to exist solely to better the world." Please note the word "solely." Even your response claims the existence of multiple purposes. (As a sidebar, I did write in my initial draft that Mensa was for me primarily a social organization, but decided it wasn't really relevant to the discussion.) I think it's safe to say that I understand what it's about. Nor did I brag about anything. A brag is a "pompous or boastful statement." I made neither -- merely stated a fact.

And for the first time in recorded history, you ARE drawing a correct conclusion: I DO support other non-hybrid, low emission, high mileage vehicles in the HOV lane. If they meet similar standards, I would have no objections to allowing, for example, electric vehicles in the HOV lane.

Rather than resorting to the name calling that started this whole thread, I will retreat from this discussion.

Dan

 

Shall we get back to the matter at hand here, rather than having this Mensa slugfest, not to be confused with the Northern Virginia Slug Line. Heck, I thought I'd bring up my experiences, such as they are. First of all, there's really not a lot of HOV lanes where I live, and the ones that do exist are somewhat of an afterthought. Before I bought my Prius, I occasionally cheated and used them. With the Prius, and some attempt to reduce speed and increase gas mileage, I've tended to the slow lane, anyway. In southeastern Virginia, speed limits are treated by drivers as minimum speeds, quite simply. Even in the slow lane, unless traffic is really bad, I pass practically no one at just over 60, and 55 will just get me run over. So with the Prius I have little real use for the HOV lane, anyway. HOV lanes are only HOV lanes here at certain hours of the day anyway (6-8 am, 4-6 pm).

When it comes to transportation planning, we're fairly backwards here. The buses are frequently used only by low income residents, there is no train, subway, elevated, or otherwise, thought they are considering light rail for the southside. Truth is, we've placed our bets here on suburban sprawl. If our cities were built like DC or New York, we'd have had to confront this issue long ago.

As for the problems that Californians face with this issue, it seems that no one bothers to imagine the unexpected consequences of their actions. I recall reading about a San Francisco tax break concerning studio apartments built on old warehouses. The unintended consequences were stunning. One of the effects that I well recall was that Chris Isaak (a long favorite of mine)lost the use of a recording studio he'd been using for years. When some ideas are implemented, you have to think of how they will be abused, how someone will game the system, and be prepared for the bizarre consequences.

 

Purely off topic but noteworthy none the less, - is how I and others who speak spanish laugh to ourselves when we hear the word Mensa. Mensa is an adjective that means stupid or foolish (girl or woman). Add an O at the end for the masculine version( boy or man). Menso.

Nothing against the MENSA organization here. I just laugh to myself whenever I hear people use that word while speaking English. I wish I was smart enought to be a member, but I would have a laugh because I would be a menso mensa....doh

My Merriam Webster electronic English Spanish translator displays the word is adj Mex fam: foolish stupid. So its probably safe to assume that this is not a slang word in Spain. That word - if there is one, may have an entirely different meaning on the streets of say, Pamplona or Valencia.

Any-hooz-it...fun with words oh yeah.

we now join the following program already in progress..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]495557[/snapback]</div>

I could just be naive, but I can't think of more than a handful of non-hybrids that receive better than 40 mpg... especially not with gasoline engines... if it is indeed such a small minority of cars, why not? if they are SULEVs and receive better than 40 mpg, why shouldn't they be in the same class as the Prius?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 06:12 AM) [snapback]495322[/snapback]</div>

For California, it was NOT a loophole. It was intentionally legislated in to allow qualifying hybrids to use them w/a sticker.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]495557[/snapback]</div>

Per the California bill and a list of vehicles at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
"AB 2628 limits single occupant HOV lane access to super clean advanced technology vehicles. Vehicles must meet one of the following four combinations of standards to qualify for the single occupant HOV lane sticker:

OPTION 1 Vehicles certified to both the California SULEV and the Federal ILEV emissions standards.
OPTION 2 Pre- 2005 model year vehicles certified to both the California ULEV and the Federal ILEV emissions standards.
OPTION 3 Hybrid and alternative fueled vehicles certified to the California ATPZEV emissions standard and having a USEPA Highway fuel economy rating greater than 45 MPG.
OPTION 4 Pre- 2005 model year hybrid vehicles certified to the California ULEV emissions standard and having a USEPA Highway fuel economy rating greater than 45 MPG."

Also, take a look at the PDF at http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=3...&pid=487841.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 06:28 AM) [snapback]495330[/snapback]</div>

This may have already been answered. The reason motorcycles are allowed in HOV lanes is due to safety reasons and nothing else.

With less traffic in HOV lanes there is "less" chance of a motorcyclist being taken out by one of the many "passengers behind the wheel".

What are "passengers behind the wheel"? These are people that who are paying most attention to everything -- except -- what they are supposed to be paying attention to. And that is where all the other vehicles are around them and how they are affecting traffic, especially when they decide to change lanes.

Most accidents are caused by people not paying attention to the environment around them causing them to hit someone else OR to put their vehicle in a place where they get hit like pulling out in front of someone.

With motorcycles in the HOV lanes they have a lot less chance of being affected in a bad way by these people. People that probably shouldn't have licenses because they are just as impaired as people who are drunk.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]495486[/snapback]</div>

Did you ever consider that the state of OH isn't the center of the universe as to whether the HOV's work or not? Here in south O.C. California ... home of the widest bunch of lanes at 2 joining freeways (including 4 of the 23 lanes), the HOV's save HOURS for 100's of thousands of motorists. You've heard of CA? ... largest state? So saying they've largely failed is a stretch, to put it mildly. Why do you think carriers like FedEx PAY extra employees to sit in the passenger seat so their trucks can drive in the HOV lane on the way to major airports?? Again, it's not just getting motorists off the road ... Congressional history states the the objective is ALSO to reduce polution. Get it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OlsonBW @ Aug 15 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]496086[/snapback]</div>

Just my opinion, and based solely on what I see in the 95/395 HOV lanes in Northern Virginia, but while the reason for motorcycles being in the HOV lanes may be exactly as you say, frankly, I don't feel nearly as safe with them in there.

I pay attention when I'm driving, and can see or hear motorcycles around me, and I don't have a problem with many - even most - of the motorcycles I see in the HOV lanes.

But then there are the others, driven by maniacs, weaving in and out of lanes at speeds well exceeding not only the speed limit (65) but the "normal" speed in the HOV lanes (70-75). I mean, these guys are MOVING!

They may be in complete control of their bikes (or at least, think that way), but they're going at such a high speed and maneuvering in and out of the lanes so quickly that other motorists may not have a chance to see them.

It's the one good thing about bad weather - the bikers find another way to get to work.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 06:57 AM) [snapback]495318[/snapback]</div>

Personally, I think it's great that some people buy a Prius to be in the HOV lanes. Good government should offer incentives (tax rebates, perks like free parking, etc.) to promote "good" behavior and offer disincentives (tax penalties, threat of jail time, etc.) to prevent "bad" behavior.

Getting more hybrids on the road helps reduce demand for oil, reduce pollution, and offers lots of other periphery benefits and if the prospect of getting into the HOV lane makes people buy Prii, then I'd argue that's an effective government program!

Contrast this with the federal government's $100,000 tax break for Hummers and then we'll discuss what is "moronic".

 

Why would the feds want to favor increased fuel efficiency anyway? It means less taxes from the fuel sales.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WA98296 @ Aug 14 2007, 12:10 AM) [snapback]495231[/snapback]</div>

That's simply horse manure. I have carpool stickers on my Prius and most of the time that I use the lane no one else is in it AND when I am in the lane on 80, 99 or 50, it is other slow carpool drivers or lane violators who are blocking the lane -- not a Prius or other hybrid.