FINAL WORD TO ALL THE BAD TALK ABOUT PRIUS's

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 3 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]399639[/snapback]</div>

Evan, I think we have a troll here. Can't you block this sort of useless rubbish?

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 3 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]399639[/snapback]</div>

Well, if I had the money I'd probably order a Tesla when they come out with the 5 seater model.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 4 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]399903[/snapback]</div>

Since Darell is on his soap box, I'll get mine out too. With all of the talk about the most efficient way to commute to work, we often forget that the most efficient commute is to not have one. It saves time, energy, and congestion on the transportation systems. Obviously not everyone can live near their work, but it should be a goal.

Tom

 

24 miles is a long bike commute! I bike to work as much as I can (maybe 150-200 days/year) but 24 miles would make me think twice.

As for dealing with ignorance regarding the Prius, I've never really dealt with much from other people... I had one person ask me how it handled in the snow, and I could honestly say that it does a fine job for me, and added that any car does better with snow tires.

For the most part I don't let people express their reservations quickly enough because if anyone so much as thinks a thought about the Prius, I'll already be half way through my sales pitch. "Oh, and by the way, it gets pretty good gas mileage," is usually my closing line

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 3 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]399639[/snapback]</div>

Darrell, long time no talk to! How are you?

Darrell and I had some good conversations quite awhile back about EVs. Folks, take to heart: Darrell knows what he's talking about. Dismiss him at your own risk of remaining ignorant.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Mar 7 2007, 09:13 AM) [snapback]401592[/snapback]</div>

Well, not only is my company giving me a Prius, they also set me up with a home office. My commute is gone, and my seeing customers is done with a Prius.

It takes some effort but any reasonably sized company could probably set up many employees to work out of their homes. The only thing stopping that is the fact that management is of an age where they simply can't understand the concept of not having people under their thumb, immediately available in a physical sense.

 

When I was younger, other folks' opinions about my choice of a car was important... now I really couldn't care less what others think of my choice of a car.

The "bad talk" about Prius is, therefore, of absolutely no interest to me. I've never received an unpleasant comment about my '04 or '07 Prii. Some seem curious, some misinformed, but no 'bad talk.'

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 7 2007, 01:57 AM) [snapback]401508[/snapback]</div>

No wonder it's taking a while... 24 miles is a pretty impressive commute by bicycle. Until recently I was doing a 12 mile commute (round trip), and probably would've been willing to tackle twice that without any real reservations. I doubt that I could've quadrupled it without a significant transition period, tho.

My bike commuting largely ended, thru the winter anyway, when my office was relocated... it's just slightly over 1.5 miles from home these days. That's too close for even a decent warm-up, so I generally walk instead.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Mar 7 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]401591[/snapback]</div>

I'm digging money out of the couch every day. When they're available, I'll be buying one. And that'll mean that I will finally not need a gasoline vehicle at all. I can't wait.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Mar 7 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]401592[/snapback]</div>

Plenty of room up here on my box to share. Since my commute is about 35' each morning, I ride my wife's comute instead.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Mar 7 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]401604[/snapback]</div>

It is fantastic. Heck, I volunteer for it! Takes me about as long as I USED to spend in the gym - and I get a lot more out of it. Probably the best benefit is that it has shown my wife that biking really CAN be an option.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Mar 7 2007, 07:44 AM) [snapback]401647[/snapback]</div>

Never better. Thanks for the nice words!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ Mar 7 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]401801[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for this! So true. It is this "what will other think" situation that gives us many of the giant cars on the road today. I often detect a bit of pity when I tell people that we drive an EV. ha.

I'm not sure what we'd define as "bad." I hear things like, "doesn't it bother you that you don't get the gas mileage promised?" Dumb things like that - from folks who apparently don't realize that their own car doesn't get the advertised mileage either. Seems that the thinking is that the only reason to buy a Prius is to get 60mpg - that the car is worthless otherwise.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(landstander @ Mar 7 2007, 10:47 AM) [snapback]401806[/snapback]</div>

When I'm feeling spunky, I go both ways, for 48 miles in the morning. I'm in better shape in my 40's than I was in my late 20's - due to my current infatuation with biking. While I do bike for fun, I *mostly* use biking for transportation - to replace vehicle miles. My six-year-old daughter can do a 12-mile round trip now. I'm considering a tandem so I can take her with me on some epic journeys.

Would take me more time to find my helmet and gloves than to walk 1.5 miles. And then you've got to stash the bike somewhere. I agree - great walking distance. You'll have to find some other excuse to ride!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 4 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]399903[/snapback]</div>

Ah, yes... I remember biking to my downtown job in my younger days in Montreal. What a great ride that was - about 10 miles in length, would take me about 45 minutes - only about 10 minutes longer than than taking the bus, and my employer even had showering facilities on site. The ride even took me through the scenic Ile Notre Dame and the Old Port of Montreal. Getting exercise, saving money and enjoying the scenery all at once.

Nowadays, living in the big smoke of Toronto and dealing with a hefty 35-mile commute (each way), biking is just not an option, as much as I would like it to be. And of course, my route follows along the busiest highway in North America (Hwy 401), which would literally be suicide (not to mention illegal) to try to bike it.

So, I did the next best thing and bought the cleanest and most fuel efficient 5-passenger car available. B)

PS - I have done a pretty good job "selling" the Prius to colleagues who previously believed all the typical misinformations; I have received the "compliment" numerous times that I should sell cars for Toyota on the side. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 3 2007, 11:50 PM) [snapback]399737[/snapback]</div>

Hi livelychick, YES there are battery electric vehicles available TODAY that are cheap. I paid JUST $8,400 for my battery electric truck. I have had it for 9 months now and LOVE IT! Matter fact I drive it daily and I'm now selling my Prius because of that. And yes I do haul my handsome doggie in it. (I call him my copilot! He LOVES to ride in my electric truck. He's one of the reasons (besides weather) that I got the hard doors added to my truck. What I drive is an NEV which stands for a Neighborhood electric vehicle or what some call low speed vehicle. There is a federal maximum speed of 25mph on it. However many people modify theirs to go faster than that. I had planned to at first BUT after driving it for 2 weeks and seeing I was catching up with everyone at the stop lights I felt no need to.

There are 3 current battery electric vehicles out there today anyone can buy: (anyone means anyone not just certain people as what took place with the GM EV1)

1. The NEVs (neighborhood Electric vehicles) There are many different styles available. Mine is a Gem. A new one that just came out is a Zenn that should be popular because it looks like a real vehicle. NEVs can only be set to go up to 25mph by the manufacturer and can only go on roads that are 35mph or less. In the 9 months I have had mine I haven't had any issues since I stick to 2 lane roads for the people who want to go around me. I couldn't drive my Prius just 25mph however for some unknown reason my Gem doesn't feel slow at 25mph like it does in my Prius. I choose my Gem because at the time it was the ONLY production battery electric vehicle on the market. I have never once regretted getting it. BEST purchase I have EVER made since it has proved to me just how great it is to drive FULLY battery electric. I also like it because it's a truck and I'm a truck girl. The company who makes they is right here in the US in Fargo, ND. So they are made right here in the US. That's important to some people. I live on a main street of town and so I'm close to all the places I do business at. Being so the 25miles of range works for me. I also have my own business so I can do what's call opportunity charging. (charging in-between uses to top off the batteries for more range throughout the day) Gemcars just recently announced a new GemEL truck that can get 40 miles of range. (I want one bad LOL) You can check out Gemcars at www.gemcars.com Downfall to Gems if you live in a cold area is that you need several of the optional add ones like hard doors, and the heater/defroster. The add ons can really push up the price. However if you like in a warm area you can get a 2 seater base Gem for JUST $7K. Gem seems to get you with all the add ons. (even the stereo is an add-on and not included--price about $700 for the stereo) Gemcars has been around for 10 years now. They are just celebrating their 10 year anniversary.

2. The Xebra sedan and the XebraPK truck. This is a new battery electric vehicle. It came out around I think August of 2006. It is made in China to save on the costs. It looks more like a "regular vehicle" except it's smaller and it only has 3 wheels on it. They put only 3 wheels on it to avoid all the cost of crash testing since it's considered a motorcycle (an enclosed motorcycle). Since it's a motorcycle many states will require that you have a motorcycle license. Some people think with it having only 3 wheels that it will be unstable. It's not though because of the way they laid out the batteries. You can't even tell it's only got 3 wheels if your sitting inside it. It can go faster than an NEV since it's categorized with the DMV as a motorcycle. It can go up to about 35mph at this time. (changes are being made to have to go faster) The current range on it is about 15-20 miles. Not the best at all range wise BUT they just announced and upgrade that can get you up to about 35-40 miles. The bed of the PK truck is alittle smaller than my Gem truck. There is a VERY active yahoo group on the Xebras. Price for Xebras is around $10K (The $10K price includes everything you need like stereo, doors, gel batteries etc)

3. And lastly the ONLY current EV that is freeway capable. It's called the Meyers Motors NMG EV. (NMG in the name stands for No MORE GAS!) It can go up to about 70mph. The current range is only about 35 miles. It is only a 1 seater vehicle though. Also it is currently limited to how many are available. (I have heard different limits from as low to 300 to 800) Meyers Motors bought out the parts from the company who used to make them. However Meyers Motors has made a ton of changes to theirs from the old version. I have heard from a few owners that say the people at Meyers Motors are great people to deal with. The NMG EV is very oddly shaped. I like it but I'm sure many don't/won't. I have always liked unusual looking vehicles. The price tag on the Meyers Motors is the most expensive of the 3 coming in at $25K. Here is a company who sells the NMG vehicle Electric vehicle

If I was to recommend to someone which to buy IF they wanted one of the 3 and lived in a cold area would have to say the Xebra WITH the upgraded batteries for longer range. The Gem with the options needed for cold areas could take you up to about $15K without even getting the stereo. If you live in a warm area either would be fine unless the lower speed of the Gem is an issue. If it is then get an Xebra. I actually would like to have both a Gem and an Xebra but not sure if I can justify that financially. There are good and bad things about both of them.

I hope this has helped. I just want people to know there ARE production battery operated vehicles available to purchase TODAY! I'm very happy I have been ok with a cheaper electric vehicle. Even though I would have the money to buy a full size electric vehicle a cheaper one is working for me for 9 months now and going.

Today is my 21st day (3 weeks) without driving a gasoline powered vehicle!!

If you have any questions for me you can pm me or e-mail me at [email protected]

PS Please excuse any spelling and grammer errors. It's 1:00am now!

 

well, i hate to break ranks and say this but....


darrelldd is right. despite the more than capable Prius and what it can do, it is pathetic that its the best (by far) solution that money can buy right now. sure, next year (a mere 15 years after EV1) we will actually have an EV that is practical for most people (affordable by only a few).

when an affordable EV vehicle with good usable range comes out, im there. give my a plug in hybrid with at least 30 miles (that will do more than 75 % of my needs currently) im there.

 

<_< Hi darelldd

QUOTE: "doesn't it bother you that you don't get the gas mileage promised?"

Actually, now that EPA has corrected its MPG calculations to be more 'real world' accurate, I *CAN* actually exceed the published ratings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 8 2007, 11:52 AM) [snapback]402220[/snapback]</div>

I don't think anytime soon you are going to get both of things you need. (lots of range at a cheap price) To me I feel your going to get one or the other. Either a limited range cheaper EV OR your going to have to pay BIG dollars for something with a larger range. (Unless a PHEV comes out) Being so I will stick to the cheaper electric vehicles that have around 40-50 miles of range. I just can't justify buying an expensive EV knowing that I will also have to at least for now have a 2nd gasloine vehicle. I mean there's NO way I'm going to have a $30K Prius and a $45K Phoneix sitting in my driveway. It wouldn't be smart at all unless I had cash growing on one of my trees. I don't drive enough to have $75K worth of metal sitting in my driveway or warehouses. It's not even that I can't afford not to. I could. I just decided the smartest thing for me to do so I have choosen to stick to buying the cheaper 40-40 mile range electric vehicles. If I do that I can have 2 vehicles for around $20K and not $75K. I will be just as well off since I don't over spoil myself. I rather invest my extra money in something other than something that's going to be used very little. There's just no way I could lay out $45K for a Phoneix. One of the reasons I drive electric is to save money. I'm not going to do that buy spending $75 on 2 vehicles. I just can't understand why some people can see this. I don't know they must just have money to burn. BUT I guess I try to understand that different people invest in different stuff. I just use vehicles to get from Point A to point B in the cheapest way I can. Just MY 2 cents.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 8 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]402357[/snapback]</div>

Some of us invest so that product development can continue. If nobody buys the first expensive cars, then there is no demand and no money for future R&D that eventually gets us to the cheaper, better cars in the future. Obviously not everybody can afford to be an early adopter. But please don't assume that people like me have money to burn, or that it grows on trees for us. We all choose how to vote with our wallets. If one car is made in China, and a similar one is made in the US for a few more dollars - I'm going to buy the US one. Sometimes, we can't afford to "spend less."

And of course - thanks for the correction on available EVs. I should have mentioned that I was speaking of "full-featured" EVs. I maintain a list of current and coming EVs on my site. Click on "available EVs". This list is nowhere complete of course, but has all the cars that Tracy mentioned.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 9 2007, 02:33 AM) [snapback]402667[/snapback]</div>

Ok I understand where your coming from and yes I'm glad that there are people who are willing for whatever reason to pay $45K for a Phoneix. I just couldn't justify paying that even though I could since it would only be a 2nd vehicle. I would rather wait then for a PHEV that could do everything and be a car for all purposes. I will be telling people about the Phoenix though. I know that most people wouldn't want to drive the electric vehicle I drive. I'm ok with that. I only get tired of people saying that their currently is NO electric vehicles in production today when there most certainly is. I will tell people about EVERY electric vehicle that's out there. There will be different levels and types of electric vehicles and my mission will be able to educate each person I can on EVERYONE out there. I could occasionally get suprised and find someone who wants to go on my level and I can tell them all about the cheaper electric vehicles. I will even tell them about some of the ones they can still buy on the used market such as the Rav4, ChevyS10, and Ford Ranger. I will tell them about electric Scooters too. This summer I plan to buy a battery powered lawn mower since I heard one will be using the new Firefly batteries.

DarellD I do consider my Gem to be "full-featured" because it has all the features I need to drive a vehicle. There are lots of people now driving the Nevs and Xebras. I sometimes feel we are left out in the rain.


PS I'm taking a HUGE step by driving my electric vehicle pretty much full time. I'm doing it for myself BUT I'm proof that an electric vehicle CAN WORK for great cheap transportation. And to boot I'm laughing ALL the way to the bank with my gas savings. I just scratch my head that other people don't see what I see.

PSS My electric vehicle IS made right here in the US in Fargo ND! So that makes me happy too. However if I want one from overseas that will be better for me down the line I will do it. I work with china for my business and because I do that I have helped people ALL over the US open up businesses because of that. (I didn't realize I was also going to have to battle where I choose to buy my electric vehicle <_< ) I already battled it out with 6 different City/Villages councils to even be able to drive my electric vehicle so I guess I can take on another one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 9 2007, 07:13 AM) [snapback]402768[/snapback]</div>

Understood. And GM called their Silverado a "hybrid" because it turned the engine off at stops. The term "full-featured" is used to describe a vehicle that has the features and performance of what most people consider a "car" today. Highway crash testing is one of the biggies here. Freeway-capable, heat/AC, real windows, four wheels, high-speed handling, real brakes, air bags. All that good stuff. It isn't meant to be a slight on NEVs and city cars - it is only a definition. We need *some* way to distinguish between a GEM and something like the Tesla. We have NEV and CityEV for the lower-speed/range cars. But what do we call the highway-capable, crash-tested vehicles if not "full featured?"

And after all that, we're way the hell off the topic here!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Mar 7 2007, 08:13 AM) [snapback]401592[/snapback]</div>

I agree 100%. I know it's nice to have a dream house and a dream job, and sometimes they aren't in the same area, but for me, quality of life suffers when you're spending hours in a car every week. Not to mention what it's doing for GHG and oil imports. I was laid off in 2003, and as an engineer in that job environment, I had to take the first job I could. It was an okay job, "only" 14 miles away, but I wanted a better job, and limited my options to those within 15 miles (there was a tempting one way downtown, but I didn't even want to consider it). I lucked out and got a good job I enjoy, just 8 miles away. It took a year of part-time searching, but it was worth it. (Went from working on casino displays to heart defibrillators, which is another plus in my book).

A 'problem' with driving short commutes is that your mileage doesn't compare so well to those with longer commutes - 1/3rd of my drive the car is warming up, so I'm lucky to reach 42 mpg in the winter, and that's with the grill blocked, and driving rolling hills in pulse-n-glide at speeds under 40 mph. But I prefer to look at it in gallons/month, which for me is about 10-12.

And now, we're moving to a new location only 3 miles away, so as soon as it warms up a tad, I'll be biking. (I was biking once a week last year, and probably would've increased it anyway this year. The commute was a little scary in spots, but I still enjoyed it even more than driving the Prius.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 10 2007, 01:43 AM) [snapback]403210[/snapback]</div>

Yeah I understand my Gem isn't a "full featured" vehicle. I was just joking about that cause it does what features I need it to get by. Also I was thinking though that you could make it that way for me?

I think I'm going to be bumming a ride in a Telsa from Daniel.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Mar 10 2007, 02:23 AM) [snapback]403223[/snapback]</div>

OH NO! You hit one of DarellDs best forms of transportation!! Here we go LOL

 

i also decided a few years ago that the extra money was not worth spending an extra 5-10 hours a week commuting. right now i am able to afford to work locally and work 4-10 hour shifts. my commute time is about 14 mins in the morning and 20-23 mins at night. (about 5½ miles one way) twice, i got a wild hair and went and applied for other positions in the past 3 years, and twice i turned down an increase in pay simply because i decided the money was not worth it. before, i said it would take $5 an hour in pay to go less than 30 miles (wont go farther than that for a million dollars) and now that gets higher and higher. i think im just trying to make it unfeasible to even bother looking. so as you can see, getting a Prius really has little to do with saving money on gas. i guess i just want my son to be able to have a good life and be able to enjoy some of the finer things this world has to offer.