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First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next week

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Rybold, Dec 16, 2010.

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  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    ^^ pointing out that the ICE will be used is not the same thing as saying the EV will not be used. For most people PHV will be a blended drive. How much on average ? Absolutely no idea, although GM might know with the Volt and its on-star monitoring. If GM is quiet on the matter I'll assume the numbers are non too pretty.
     
    #161 SageBrush, Feb 27, 2011
  2. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    How many months out of the year do you experience this "winter" thing that you talk about? Not being in the northern-most 10% of the United States, it's difficult for the other 90% of us to conceive this "winter" thing that you speak of. :)
     
    #162 Rybold, Feb 27, 2011
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    Winter is below FREEZING temperatures. That's far more than just northern-most 10%.
    .
     
    #163 john1701a, Feb 27, 2011
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  4. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    There are 12 months in a year. How many months do you experience "winter" ?
     
    #164 Rybold, Feb 27, 2011
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    How many in the far south run their A/C while they drive?

    What is your point?
    .
     
    #165 john1701a, Feb 27, 2011
  6. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    Actually, I don't run my AC at all (well, VERY rarely). Usually, when I'm on city streets, I just put the two front windows down, and when I'm on the highway, I crack the front windows to about one to two inches and turn the fan on high. Yeah, seriously, I don't use the AC.

    The point I was trying to get at is that we only experience winter about 3-4 months out of the year (correct me if you experience winter for more than that). At my latitude, we only have winter from about November through February. Now of course, winter here means highs in the 60s and lows in the 40s, but our winter months are only about 3-4 months of the year (the 3-4 varies from year to year). The other 8-9 months of the year, hybrid and electric batteries do not experience the cold weather. I was up in Chicago two years ago during the summer for about a week and it was about 80 degrees during the day and about 70 degrees at night. So, where I'm going with this is that EV batteries will only experience decreased range as a result of freezing temperatures (in the places where it actually freezes) for 3-4 months out of the year. During the other 8-9 months, the EVs will not experience a decrease due to cold weather. That was my point. I apologize if I should have implied less and been more explicit the first time.

    It appears that the Prius has been experiencing the same situation: http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/193735/group/homepage/

    .
     
    #166 Rybold, Feb 27, 2011
  7. Erikon

    Erikon Active Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    Well, with that definition of winter, in the northeast winter starts in September and lasts thru may!:D
     
    #167 Erikon, Feb 28, 2011
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    25°F is the point which the engine will run shortly for heat in Volt during warm-up and at times while you drive, regardless of battery-level.
    .
     
    #168 john1701a, Feb 28, 2011
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    It's bellow freezing an average of 8 days a year here, I rarely drive during the occasional times it is bellow freezing, but we should explore what the volt can do in the cold, and those buying them should know what they are getting into.

    EVs lose range when its cold, especially when sitting with the heater on. Here is one case.
    Getting 25 Miles of Electric Range or Less in the Chevy Volt

    Chevy Volt Cold Weather Testing Update

    Note these quotes are from a volt fan site. It does show the volt has some advantages over a pure EV in extreme cold, but the larger battery pack of a pure EV may make up for this. When it is cold out there is a trade off between range and comfort, and if comfort is chosen as most of us in the warmer climates would do, range drops. On these very cold days there is also a large drop in the Pius's efficiency and likely the phv Pius's range. We just don't have those figures yet.

    Since you may get caught in a very cold traffic jam, range anxiety on a pure ev could come into play. I think the bad case for the leaf is 45 miles. In the prius in a very hot slow traffic jam, my mileage dropped to 17mpg. YEVRMV (your ev range may vary) and YMMV.
     
    #169 austingreen, Feb 28, 2011
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  10. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    AustinGreen, thanks for the detailed reply, providing explanation and examples, and also noting that the Leaf and PHV Prius also experience this situation. Thank you. :)
     
    #170 Rybold, Feb 28, 2011
  11. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    Worst case scenario for any car (regardless if it is an EV, PHEV, hybrid or pure gas) is 0 miles if you are stuck and not moving.

    Range degradation in cold temperatures is very dependent on average speeds. The Leaf is able to run the heat at max (which draws 5 kW) for at least 4 hours since it has a 24 kWh battery pack. Assuming 4 hours of max heat, that'd only leave about 4 kWh to move the vehicle which would mean that at a worse than average 3 miles / kWh you'd also have enough energy to move about 12 miles for an average of 3 mph.

    A typical 4 cyl gas engine will normally burn about 0.3 gallons/hour when idling. Since you aren't moving, just about all of that energy (about 12 kWh equivalent) is converted to heat. Now how much of that energy is transferred to engine coolant (and thus cabin heat) and how much is shot out the exhaust? Good question - but even if it's only half that is similar to the energy that the heater in the Leaf uses to heat the cabin.

    Of course, if you are moving in that ICE vehicle your fuel burn rate goes way up and you have a lot more excess heat available for heating which is basically "free" since in normal weather that excess heat is thrown away.
     
    #171 drees, Feb 28, 2011
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  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    yes, definitely agree.

    just to fill in, I said bad case not worst case. Nissan however has said worst case, and pegged it at 47 (I misremembered this as 45) and they did it with airconditioned traffic jam in what would for me be mild heat. My awful prius mileage traffic jam was much hotter and a little slower. They have a table on the wikipedia page that shows all the conditions. They don't show any data below 0 Fahrenheit which I would assume would be much worse than shown given the consumer reports data.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf]Nissan Leaf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
     
    #172 austingreen, Feb 28, 2011
  13. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    You do realize that the particular "worst case" scenario (stop & go, avg 6 mph, 86*F) you are referencing would leave you in the car for over 7 hours?

    That said, the other hot weather scenario is a 110*F cross-town commute at an average 49 mph which yields a range of 68 miles. Of course, add some highway speed (65 mph) miles in there and that will likely drain your range to under 60 miles.
     
    #173 drees, Feb 28, 2011
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    I'm not quite sure what kind of point you are trying to make here. I was agreeing with your previous one that worst is not really worst. If you are leaving houston in the summer before a hurricane 105 degrees and 7 hours is definitely possible to go 40 miles . The hot test I
    saw was 55mph average at 95 degrees. I don't expect to be stuck in a traffic jam for more than an hour here, but have been stuck much longer in the hot cities of atlanta and houston. You can of course set the heat or air conditioner at a different temperature and suffer through it the few times you are stuck and need the range. In the volt you have a 5 mile electric researve after you run out of gas in a limp mode.
     
    #174 austingreen, Feb 28, 2011
  15. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    Of course, if a hurricane was coming and you were headed onto jam-packed highways, you probably wouldn't take the limited-range Leaf. :D
    (cough. cough. Chevy Volt). lol.

    (but I'm assuming your point was just to show a real-world example in which sitting in traffic for 7 hours could occur). In a real world scenario, anyone smart enough to buy a Leaf would probably have left several days before the traffic jam, with the precious Leaf on a trailer behind a trustworthy Toyota Prius. :)
    .
     
    #175 Rybold, Mar 1, 2011
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  16. calirider

    calirider ECOmobile

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    Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

    Haha, no no, the smart person would just be driving their Chevy Volt before the traffic jam.

    By the way, what kind of MPG would a Prius get towing a Leaf? jk.
     
    #176 calirider, Mar 1, 2011
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