First Test ELRs Roll Off The Line

Whuuuttt??? A 2-door ????? Good gosh, what a waste. 2-door automatically relegates ELR to even more of a niche vehicle.

 

Remind me never to ride with you, because after years of driving, my instincts are to use the brake pedal when I need to brake.

And it's an automatic....we aren't downshifting here...even if the momentum control is similar. I don't see the advantage at all.

My worry is Cadillac has complicated the whole process by giving dual brake inputs.

How many people are really going to understand the advantage or really understand when or how to best use these paddle brakes?

And do you really want 65 year old Grandpa potentially coming up behind you on a freeway ramp trying to decide whether he wants to just press the brakes or use the paddle "brakes"?

No, just give me brakes...through the brake pedal. And make the regenerative aspect all as automatic as possible, I don't want to think about it, or have to think about it.

 

The Prius, and likely all hybrids, have braking control through the accelerator. Yes, it's to simulate the drag of an automatic transmission, which is just another type of braking. In many cases there it is engine braking, which can be engaged by shifting to B on the Prius. Then the eco, normal, power, or sport modes on a hybrid could adjust how aggressive that 'off the accelerator' regenerative braking is.

Some EV enthusiasts prefer the braking set up on the Tesla Roadster. All regenerative braking control is through the accelerator. The brake pedal is controls just the friction brakes. Regenerative braking is just motor braking, and when the energy isn't recaptured, it is called dynamic braking. As it is on locomotives, which also have seperate controls for friction and dynamic brakes.

There are already cars on the road with paddle shifters. These paddles on the ELR are going to be used the same way, with as much difficulty.

 

I realize there are different systems being applied. My "beef" is with separating the inputs. Plus Cadillac is calling it "Regen on Demand"...which seems stupid. Personally if I'm driving a Hybrid with a battery, I want regeneration, automatically, in whatever capacity every time I brake. I don't want an "Extra" Regen or Regen on demand.

My Honda Fit Sport had paddle shifters...but at least they were for transmission control. Which makes a little more sense to me. Even then, I barely ever used them. Using the paddle shifters to make the "Automatic" transmission shift at my desire, seemed just like making my automatic transmission "stupid". IMO it felt nothing like the experience of driving a REAL manual transmission and shifting.

 

From my observation not many people know to downshift, even an automatic, when going down a steep or long incline. They just ride their brakes. Just because many drive that way doesn't mean transmissions shouldn't have low gear settings in order to simplify the controls for the masses.

Cars already have multiple options for slowing down. Not everyone uses them. That will be the case with these paddles. People that don't know how, or aren't comfortable with them will still have the brake pedal to stop the car.

 

Hybrids already use the accelerator and brake pedal to control regen. One more input isn't going to throw the world off its axis. I don't see anyone thinking these paddles can be used to stop the car. It is just another option for slowing it during coasting. And there are already other options for that available on all cars.

Though some claim using manual mode on an automatic can be more fuel efficient, the advantage of the paddle shifters there is in allowing you to down shift without taking your hands off the wheel.

 

I'm NOT saying "Transmissions" shouldn't have lower gear settings. Infact, I'm really not talking transmission at all.

I only mentioned transmissions at all because I am familiar with "paddle" controls from the Honda Fit automatic transmission.

On this issue, as far as driving skills go, we are dumbing down the masses. I learned on a stick shift, and it amazes me how few younger people even know how to drive a stick.

Of course my Prius, and last few automobiles have all been automatic. But I loved driving my manual transmission vehicles, and hope that someday I might own another....I loved downshifting, upshifting and everything that came with the direct input of REAL manual shifting.

 

Never ride with me..

Though you might never know as the car will be decelerating so if you are not watching my foot you might not know if itsregen from the accel pedal or braking. Since I start to decelerate earlier than most regular drivers you'd feel safe. People thatdrive up and brake hard, like my wife, are the ones that scare me.

Funny as I downshifted (with a lever) my previous Honda 20-30 times a day. No current automatic transmission knows what will be happening in 10-20 seconds, I do. Because it was a more complex operations requiring taking one hand off the wheel to down shift, which is what I do in the Volt now, I had to do it earlier than I would like to have done it so I could have both hands on the wheel when turning -- higher speed turns and ramps are the place I use it the most and some place where I want two hands on the wheel. Using just L ont he volt, feathering one-foot control for both acceleration and regen, is still not fully natural. Downshifting is more natural when on thinks about desire to accelerate out of the turn (and in a manual wants the lower gear that will be matched for the lower speed). I agree about the REAL manual, but the wife cannot handel that so its a compromise.

Its an option you clearly don't use on your Honda.. but many do. I would never buy an automatic that did not have a decent sport shift option. I'd love the paddles ... though not enough to pay the premium of an ELR.

 

LOL!
I just watched the Jay Leno's Garage video. I'll say this much, regardless of "Paddle Brakes"...or how they may be used, it IS a beautiful looking vehicle.

I might just have to buy a lottery ticket myself.

 

I know you aren't, and I agree with the dumbing down bit. But you want regenerative braking dumbed down. The car manufactures decided to link it with the brake pedal in order to dumb it down for the masses. This has the masses thinking that regen braking is a brake. It's not. While more effective, it is as much a brake as coasting to a stop. Without a friction brake, or park gear, engaged, it will be possible to push the car. Regen won't stop it.

Functionally, regen braking is closer to engine braking than it is to the brakes. With engine braking, coasting spins the wheel and thus the engine. The engine pumps air, which takes energy from the spinning wheels slowing. Regen braking works the same except a motor is spun and we capture the produced electricity in a battery. We don't control engine braking through the brake pedal. In most modern cars it is engaged just by taking the foot off the accelerator. No functional reason why regen braking couldn't work the same way. It already does to a degree.

Regen doesn't have to be on the brake peddle. On the Tesla Roadster and other EV concepts it has nothing to do with the brake pedal. That isn't a worry with the ELR. Regen is still fully controlled by the brake. These paddles just control how aggressive is during coast. Something that, I thing, Volt drivers can already do to a degree through the transmission shifter, and why the comparison to transmissions.

As to people getting confused by whether to use the paddle or not, and then, potentially, getting into trouble. We probably don't want those people behind the wheel of any car.

 

I won't know for sure until I get a chance to test drive one, but much of the speculation is it is simply a toggle between a stronger or weaker regen.
Most people I have spoken to prefer the stronger regen, but some prefer the weaker regen. Having the selection on the gear shifter is, IMO, clunky. Having it as a steering wheel paddle is more convenient.

 

Beauty is such a subjective thing...
I actually love the headlights.
But overall, the car is very ... blocky. I prefer clean, smooth lines and curves.
And what is it with the hood? When viewed in profile, the drivers window dives down under the top of the hood by quite a bit.
It makes it look like they took mismatched pieces of two cars and crammed them together even though they don't quite fit.

 

No I don't want it "dumbed down", I just don't want it unnecessarily complicated.

Some people have reported or admitted to shifting into "B" mode with The Prius, to get a similar downshift affect from the regenerative braking. I don't recommend doing this, nor do I do it.

This Cadillac is a somewhat different animal, and evidently Cadillac see's some advantage to offering drivers the option of a paddle shifter controlled regenerative braking input and control.

Maybe if I owned it? I might learn to love it?

I'll admit a lot of my reaction might be me. I don't really like "paddle shifters" for anything. For a generation that grew up "driving" vehicles in video games, maybe the paddle shifters feel more natural? But I'm a bit old school here. Give me my brakes....through my brakes...and make my automatic transmission....automatic. And if I'm shifting or downshifting? I'd rather do that through a real gear shift...either manual or automatic.

I can question Cadillac's decision here, and question the reality of the feature, but without actually sitting behind the steering wheel and actually driving the vehicle I can't really gauge how it may or may not improve the driving experience.

I really think Cadillac should give me one for free. I'm willing to drive it and offer my input as to my personal feedback. If they let me keep it? I might even change my opinion.....I can be bought.

 

Have a 2012 Acura tsx se with paddle shifters, obviously no regen, but I use it to slow down, downshift before corners/upshift for coasting in 5th gear in automatic and manual modes, and use brakes just to stop, and it sounds good too.

 

I think a lot of modern sedans/sports cars have become cookie cutter boring. I think this Cadillac looks good. They pushed some styling points enough to create some uniqueness without going over the edge and looking "weird".

By todays standards, which I think actually comparatively are low, I'd rank this as a good looking automobile.

 

I don't that happening here. GM has taken something that is selectable through the shifter or touch screen on other hybrids and plug ins, and put it on more accessible steering wheel paddles. People that get an ELR will play around with them at first, but unless they love them, or see a benefit of using them, they'll just ignore them once once the newness wears off. Just like what happens with paddle shifters for an automatic.

It actually opens the valves and increases engine braking. Hence the B. I've used it to control speed on steep or long declines. At least in the gen2, the regen braking level drops with its use.

I admit to downshifting with my old car(auto) when coming to a stop, but that's because its DFCO was quite passive, and downshifting was the only way to get it to engage on surface streets. I usually downshift for the same reasons for using B on the Prius. It saves the brake pads. Do you downshift for hill descent, or is it just flat where you are at?

The paddle shifters, I believe, actually originated in F1. Of course, arcade racing games made them popular.
Formula One car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've seen comments on the VW's double clutch automatic that shifting is smoother with manual shifts by the paddles.

I really don't see the point of CVTs with paddle shifters though.

 

Maybe this will help. I drove a not-yet-for-sale-car that has these paddles. It was the main feature of the car I'd like to see on a Prius. Just think of it as a way to increase or decrease the amount of regen when you are coasting. Here is how to envision their use.
1. You are in a Prius and you take your foot of the gas to coast up to a distant red light. You don't really want to brake you want to glide, mostly. So you tap the paddle that lessens the regen.
2. You get closer to the red light...so now you can press the brake pedal...or you can tap the paddle that increases regen, then use the brake pedal when you are ready to actually stop.
3. You are going down a hill and you start to coast. You tap the paddle that increases the strength of the regen.

It is a feature you can freely use or not. It takes about 5 minutes and you are totally addicted to it. You can use it to just modify the regen strength and set it and leave it alone. Or you can use it to adjust your rate of slowing. Think of the brake pedal, now, as a means of stopping the car.

Mike

 

And where do you suppose the motor/generators are located? They are in the transmission. In the Volt, you regulate the regen intensity on the "go pedal" by shifting from 'D' to 'L' and this moves a mechanical linkage connected to the transmission just like a convention automatic transmission. The shifter position sensor is in the transmission case. The ELR will also have paddles which connect electronically to the transmission just like in a conventional automatic transmission with paddle shifters.

Drivers in other surrounding cars will not be able to tell the difference between downshifting a conventional automatic transmission and increasing regen via the paddles on the ELR unless they open a window and listen for the change in pitch and volume of the nonexistent engine braking.

 

No, I really think the motor/generators are parts unto themselves NOT IN the transmission. They work in conjunction with the planetary gear transmission. But the motor generators are the motor generators.

Besides we are talking about the BRAKES....the vehicle is slowed in this case by regenerative braking system.

I read nothing to suggest the ELR Regen on Demand system was linked by paddles electronically to the transmission. The sold final affect might be similar to downshifting....but it ain't really downshifting.

Listen, I don't really care. I think the whole thing is a bit of a gimmicky sell for Cadillac. I don't particularly like the idea of "Slow Me Down" paddles connected to my steering wheel, regardless of whether those paddles are letting me regen at a higher rate.

But as I said, I've never driven this vehicle nor tried this system. It is possible I would sit behind the wheel, drive it around and think it was wonderful.