Fisker raising the bar for batteries?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by mercat68, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. mercat68

    mercat68 Active Member

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  2. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Everyone is. There's no estimated date for when manufacturing will be cost-effective or reliable.
     
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  3. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Real game changer, whoever comes out of the gate first. I'd want this. But don't get too excited, folks. Still pretty much vaporware at this point, and even for the next several years it still will be. Unless this SS battery works real darn reliably in temps from -20 F to 120 F, and has a great life expectancy, and can be upscaled to cost the same as current Lithium calls, then maybe. Or lithium cells will continually plunge in pricing and increase in energy density as they have been doing. The market will sort all this out to whichever is cheaper to produce.

    The other thing is how many mega amps the average house will need to have in order to charge at home in minutes. One minute seems impossible. The cord would have to be two inches thick. I haven't been to a refueling station since August (other than to buy gas for the lawnmower). Plugging in three feet from my car at home every 4 days is becoming very habit forming. Driving somewhere remote and having to buy electrons for more money than home pricing will be almost as depressing as those who have been buying gasoline or diesel.
     
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  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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  5. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    ^ This. Just demonstrates that next gen batteries are always next gen batteries. Might happen in the replacement model of the replacement of my Prime. In that case, 2030. And I'll still need several thousand amps of service to do anything with it.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Everyone I know who has an EV except one person charges at home on L1 including the guy with the Model S 90D. Few people drive enough every day to need more than an overnight L1 charge. Some do, of course, but not many.
     
  7. MNdriver

    MNdriver Senior Member

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    Funny, everyone I know who has an EV - including the one person I know with a Prime - charges at home with L2. Im the outlier.
     
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  8. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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    I charge at L1 at home:D
     
  9. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    I did see an article about a Panasonic solid battery a few months back. As I recall they were going to put it in production "within six months", but that was "if there were no problems with doing so". I suppose this one would be for the Prius and whatever EV Toyota might be planning.

    I guess Toyota guessed wrong with Hydrogen and are now gearing up for EV?
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Home charging will never need to be this fast. AC Level 2 is fast enough for the majority to fully charge a 200+ mile EV overnight. For for the few wanting quicker turn around or use up all the 300+ mile range in a day, twin Level 2 will be an option in some cars; it is in current Teslas.

    Fast DC charging is only a need when away from home, and those that will regularly pay for it can't charge at home for whatever reason.
    Or in phones, pads, and laptops. They will likely sees these batteries before any car, because of lower risks.
     
  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I know of two people charging on L1, and both plan to put in L2. I know scores of people that drive plugin vehicles.
    But that really is beside the point. To move 40kWh of power in a minute on home power (240V at best) you would need 60,000 Amps (? someone please check that).
    This will never be an option for home charging.
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    There's likely no need to do it, but there is a way if it really became necessary.

    You charge up a big stationary battery like a bunch of powerwalls, and charge from that instead of the grid. But the movement of power to the car is still a problem because, like you said, moving 2 or more megawatts at relatively low voltage (around 400V) requires a lot of amps (around 5,000A).
     
  13. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    400V. I don’t know of any houses equipped to handle 400V.
    240V is the highest without huge expenses.
    Can neighborhood transformers even handle that?

    Now, I see some value to this on interstates where this might be viable, but I still think it unlikely it would work well.
     
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I was talking about the car, not the house. This is more-or-less how CHAdeMO and Superchargers work. And it's DC.
     
  15. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    My apologies, I misunderstood.

    Yes, this is certainly possible if the new battery/storage technology can handle the rapid rate of charging.
    But even if that tech will, it will never be capable of it at homes.
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    What I'm saying is that you could do it at a home using the approach of charging up a bunch of batteries at the home and using them as the source of power to charge the car battery. Not that you'd ever want to do that, but you could make it happen.
     
  17. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I would love to see what that setup looked like.
     
  18. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It would be big, expensive, and pretty scary, but ultimately just a bunch of boxes.

    I think this method is Elon's plan for upgrading Superchargers to over 350kW charge rate.



     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Powerwall buffered of charging stations might work. Fully charge at night to use low cost electrical rates and then high-speed charging during the business day.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    The smoke will be free. ;)
     
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