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Florida PHEV-200 10KW UPGRADE

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by wa4eqw, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    This thread is being posted as I progress through the updating of a 2 year old 10kw PIS unit installed into a Gen II Prius (2006). Pictures will be posted for clarification.

    Thanks to Steve of autobeyours.com,Rob of PlugInSupply.com and Dimitry of CleanPowerAuto.com. I have received invaluable advise from these gentlemen over the past two years and have met each of them personally.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    this should be a lot of fun, thanks!
     
  3. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    PHEV-200.jpeg Making it safe.JPG Mini BMS boads (1).JPG
    Left to right. Florida PHEV-200, After 2 years, making it safe for ease of maintenance upgrade and Mini BMS boards to be re-installed.

    A little history. PHEV because that's what it is. 200 because this is the 200th Prius rebuild by Steve, Jenny and their crew at AutoBeYours.com. We took delivery of it at the end of March 2011, it's a 2006 and I may add, a beautiful car that will be taking it's second coast to coast trip this year. The Prius has been completely trouble free but the EV section does need checking from time to time. This was expected and after visiting Robb at PlugInSupply.com and seeing the new modular design, it became obvious that this would be a necessary maintenance tool. I am also extremely fortunate that Dimitri of CleanPowerAuto, the designer of the BMS boards being used in this system, has been available for local assistance when I needed it. It has been and continues to be my pleasure dealing with these companies and these great people. I think as a consumer in the relatively early stages of this technology, problems will occur. They also did in the early days of Henry Ford's "Tin Lizzies", one had to "mess" with them to keep them going.
     

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  4. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Safe pack before removal.JPG Looks like I won't be able to get the pack lifted out until Thursday... Ho Humm will just have to bite my fingernails :( .
    Note the two fans on top of the charger. My Prius is ungaraged and so here in the near tropics, heat is a real problem. I normally only charge the pack at night though. The white spot on the left center is boiled out fluid from a now dead cell.
    Parts.JPG Left to right.... End plates for the cells. Connector harnesses. Metal cell straps (I think). Webbing hold down straps for the completed boxes (I think). Various hardware for strapping. Box of mini BMS boards and box of series connecting straps for the cells, all removed from the old pack for re-installation.... Oh and the 608 phillips screws and washers that all have to be put back !!! All sitting on top of the new boxes.

    wa4eqw
     
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  5. MJFrog

    MJFrog Active Member

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    Yeah, that's a neat set-up you've got there. The fans look like 12v PC case fans. How are you powering them?
     
  6. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    The cooling fans on the Elcon battery charger are unnecessary and an overkill. Either way it is best to charge with a window open so that heat can escape the cabin. I have been running my Elcon 1.5kW charger (without any cooling modifications) for over a year without any problems. Nevertheless it is a nice setup.
     
  7. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    110 volt powered when I plug in the charger. The first charger failed and was replaced because of overheating. This one in it's present configuration has been working since November of 2011. It may be overkill but it works.
     
  8. MJFrog

    MJFrog Active Member

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    Did you just hardwire them to a 110v AC line? I wouldn't think a 12v case fan could take that...or am I missing something?
     
  9. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    The fans are 110 volt ac !
    19 cells strapped.JPG I have started re-assembly. I have managed to get a couple of banks loose myself. I still have the old box and two banks of cells to remove. Can't get the box out 'til Friday now.
    Straps, End Plate and Tensioners.JPG The Straps, End Plates and Tensioners are shown here. This is repeated 4 times.

    Pat.
     
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  10. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    First bank of 19.JPG The first bank of 19 cells has been transferred and as you can see, the BMS boards are indicating happy cells. Total voltage for this bank at the moment is 62.2 volts (off load) for an average of 3.27 volts per cell. High cells read 3.29, Low cell (1) is 3.25 with the remainder at 3.27 and 3.28 volts. It should be fairly easy to balance this section.

    Not much room.JPG This is my ham radio shack where most of the transfer work is done. As you can see, there isn't much room but it's adequate and fun.

    Pat. wa4eqw
     
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  11. glyndwr

    glyndwr Member

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    may i ask the reason for the upgrade.

    I may be looking to upgrde my eniginer system in the future to one like a bms2 and a few more batteries and some reconfiguration of my batteries.

    Thanks, Anthony.
     
  12. PriusDIY

    PriusDIY Junior Member

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    Pat, can you or someone please detail the procedure for balancing a bank and what's needed to do so. I know it needs to be done but don't know the how or why to this step. I'm a computer guy, not an electrical engineer ;)
     
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  13. pjc

    pjc Member

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    All the cells are connected together (in this case, in series). When you charge (or discharge) the pack, an equal amount of energy is added to (drained from) all the cells at the same time. What makes you stop charging (discharging) is when any ONE cell is full (empty). The key here is that the rate at which the cells' charge go up or down is the same for all of them. LiPO is not like your regular alkaline battery, if you overcharge any cell, you irreversibly damage it (or even kill it altogether). Likewise, if you overdischarge a cell, you can also damage/kill it. These are expensive little buggers and a pain to swap in and out, so you don't want that to happen. Any system worth its salt will have robust electronics to prevent exactly these things from happening.

    Therefore, if one cell is charged less than the others, then you will have to stop the discharge early (while all the other cells still have some residual energy in them) so that you don't damage that one cell. Conversely, when you charge, that low cell will not get totally filled up (since it charges up at the same rate as the others). The result is that your "effective" capacity (available energy) of the pack is less than the "true" (or ideal) capacity. The opposite can also be the case, where one cell has a little more charge in it than the others; then when you charge up the pack, you have to stop early (so you don't blow up the high cell) and the rest of the cells don't get fully charged.

    "Balancing" is simply when you even out the charge state of all the cells so that they all reach "full" or "empty" at the same time, thereby maximizing the available energy from the pack.

    The simplest way to "balance" the pack (conceptually) is to simply watch the voltage of the cells at the end of the charge cycle, note if one cell was higher than the rest, and then drain some charge from that cell (which can be done just be hooking a light bulb to that particular battery cell). In reality, doing it this way is a lot of work, a pain in the neck (think Whack-a-Mole), and could take a very long time, so usually your BMS (battery management system) has some electronics that do it for you (by partially shunting the high cells as they get near full, for instance, so that they charge up at a slower rate than the others) during the charge cycle.

    Pat's system has such a BMS (that is the string of little boards he is holding up in one of the pictures). I believe it works using the shunting method I describe and is more-or-less automatic. You probably just have to leave it plugged in overnight or something. I'm sure he can elaborate....
     
  14. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    The simplest way to balance a battery pack is to connect all your cells in parallel and charge them with a small single lifepo4 cell charger until they reach about 3.65volts. The cells will naturally balance themselves as currents will flow in and out of cells connected in parallel. No need for any balancing boards. You would need to be carefull that the voltage of 3.65 volts is not exceeded. This would be the procedure I would use before installing the battery pack into the Prius, it beats manually balancing all 76 lifepo4 cells.
     
  15. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Boring but essential.JPG 8 screws, 8 lock washers, 8 flat washers to anchor the BMS board and series connectors to every cell (76 of them). Do NOT forget the lock washers or you will finish up with a pile of sparking rattling junk in the trunk!

    Yes, the battery balance procedure has been pretty well covered. The mini BMS bords that I am using have a green LED that shows whenever a cell is over 2.5 volts (don't let them get this low) and the red LED is activated at 3.7 volts (+/- .05 v). I asked Dimitri of CleanPowerAuto (the BMS designer) for that information a week ago. When the red LED is activated, a 4.7 ohm 5 watt resistor is applied across the cell as a load.

    The other question from Anthony... The reason for the upgrade is that the original pack of 76 cells were so tightly jammed in that it became necessary for me to find an easier way to replace a bad cell when that occurs.... and it will from time to time.
    Pat.
     
  16. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Half Way.JPG Half way finished... Old box was removed this morning and 4 cells delivered by UPS this afternoon. Nothing stopping completion now.
    A little more comfortable.JPG My wife Joyce said "Raise it off the floor or quit complaining about your back"... She was right as usual ;-). Almost finished 3/4... One more box to go. Everything smooth sailing so far and EVERY box looks like a complete plug in interface with the Charger, Contactors, Prius battery and input/output to the fully modified pack.
     
  17. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    All Done.JPG All done.

    Ready for the Trunk.JPG Ready for the Trunk. Installed the 4 new cells and each pack average is 62 volts and overall is 248 volts when connected (off load). Pack needs charging and that will be done tomorrow after installing in the trunk. Finished it sooner than expected thanks to the excellent design of the new PIS kit.
     
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  18. go2alexander

    go2alexander New Member

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    Hello Pat,

    That's looking good. Thanks for sharing the pictures.
    I just bought in Europe an old model PRIUS PIS conversion with the same battery case as you had. The unit is from end 2011 and never used. And to upgrade this I ordered from Robb (PIS) a new Rear controller and he will also update my front controller for my Prius Gen 3.

    In the meantime I have asked Robb a lot of questions about the conversion of a GEN3 and got already many answers. But perhaps you know somebody on this forum that also has got experience with the PIS conversion of a GEN 3 Prius? So I don't have to bother Robb for all small details.


    By the way, all the 76 WINSTON LIPO cells that I bought were very slowly drained dead by the MiniBMS in the last 2 years. 0V each cell. I have recovered them very slowly with a LAB power supply. If anybody is interested in the procedure let me know and I will post it together with some pictures.

    Thanks

    Alexander
    The Hague, The Netherlands
     
  19. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Hi Alexander... I would like to see the pics. of how you are doing the recharge. I have seen Dimitri doing it with his lab unit but that was quite a while ago and not on dead cells.

    Thanks for the post, I will be putting my system back in the trunk this morning. I talked to Robb last night by email, he had just returned to California after a PIS install in Maui.... Nice ;) .
    Don't expect a long answer from Robb, but it will be substantial and completely informative. Most of his information is on the PIS website.

    Sorry to hear about your drained supply though. Your pack must have been discharging a very long time in order to have it drained.
    Good luck and best wishes
    Pat.
     
  20. PriusDIY

    PriusDIY Junior Member

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    Thanks to all who answered my pack balancing question, I got it now and appreciate the info.

    Great work Pat, you're flying along!
     
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