Floyd Landis Doping???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 5 2006, 10:24 AM) [snapback]298194[/snapback]</div>

I agree; I'm thinking either tainted samples or bad lab work.

What concerns me is:
1. The same lab that did sample 1 is doing sample 2.
2. This lab has been suspect before.

I find it difficult to believe the doping accusations when so many test before and after were negative. How can just *that* test be positive, especially for synthetic testosterone. Don't you have to do that for weeks and months for it to have any effect? Just one "dose" doesn't do anything, does it?

 

Second sample tests positive and has synthetic testosterone.

Landis fails second test, title likely gone

""I have received a text message from Chatenay-Malabry lab that indicates the 'B' sample of Floyd Landis' urine confirms testosterone was taken in an exogenous way," Pierre Bordry, who heads the French anti-doping council, told The Associated Press shortly after the "B" sample results were released.

Lab head Jacques De Ceaurriz said the isotope testing procedure was "foolproof."

"No error is possible in isotopic readings," he told the AP."

Landis caught in war on drugs

Landis set to be stripped of title

"Tour de France winner Floyd Landis is set to become the first victor of the race to be stripped of his title after his B sample confirmed he had abnormal levels of testosterone the sport's governing body the UCI announced.
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The 30-year-old American - who was also sacked by his Phonak team following the announcement - had failed a drugs test after the 17th stage of the Tour de France which he had won to get his way back into the race just a day after he had faded out of contention."

Landis had synthetic testosterone

"A report this week in the New York Times cited an unidentified source from the UCI as saying an analysis of Landis' first sample by carbon isotope ratio testing had detected synthetic testosterone, which indicated it had been ingested.

Jacques De Ceaurriz, the head of the Chatenay-Malabray lab, said the isotope testing procedure involving a mass spectrometer is totally reliable.

"It's foolproof. This analysis tells the difference between endogenous and exogenous," he told the AP. "No error is possible in isotopic readings."

Landis spokesman Michael Henson disputed that.

"There is no conclusive evidence that shows that this test can show definitively the presence of exogenous testosterone," Henson said.

But World Anti-Doping Agency chief Dick Pound said the tests were scientifically valid.

"The overwhelming scientific consensus would hold these tests are reliable and what they found is what they found," he told the AP. "Had there been any scientific difficulties or technical difficulties we would have heard about it."

Pound said confirmation of the synthetic testosterone finding would undermine any Landis defense.

"It's probably a very good preemptive move to close down yet another avenue of complaint or argument," he said. "The science is pretty well accepted. The history of these tests are pretty well established.""

Landis vows to keep tour title

"Tour de France champion Floyd Landis will fight to clear his name and keep his hard-won title after his backup urine sample confirmed high testosterone levels Saturday.
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Following the results of the "B" sample, Landis was fired by his Swiss team, Phonak. He also faces a two-year ban from USA Cycling, which is responsible for sanctions against the American rider."

"The confirmed test sets off what could now be months of appeals and arguments by Landis, who says the positive finding was due to naturally high testosterone levels. He has repeatedly declared his innocence and vowed to fight the allegations — and did so again Saturday.

"I have never taken any banned substance, including testosterone," Landis said in a statement. "I was the strongest man at the Tour de France, and that is why I am the champion.

"I will fight these charges with the same determination and intensity that I bring to my training and racing. It is now my goal to clear my name and restore what I worked so hard to achieve.""

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 5 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]298194[/snapback]</div>

Can you point me to reports showing subsequent tests to the positive one are negative ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ Aug 5 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]298304[/snapback]</div>

Bollocks. There are tonnes of good things happening but the media doesn't cover that sort of thing because they make far more money scaring the hell out of people and being sensationalists. If you look you'll find plenty of things to be happy about.

 

I can't explain exogenous testosterone with reportedly normal total values. At least, I *think* his total results was normal. That would have to be a blood test thought, not urine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 5 2006, 04:34 PM) [snapback]298364[/snapback]</div>

Exactly how effective is this cream? Does it really do that much good if used only once and absorbed through the skin? Better to take a few Aleve and a cortisone shot.

Hm. You mean a masseuse could have used some without Floyd knowing it? I wonder if he had a massage. And if so, was this a team Phonak masseur. Seems the team has been having problems with doping lately. And I wonder if it isn't all the fault of the athletes.

Phonak sacks Landis, examines future

While I understand the French demand that Floyd prove he's innocent, under the Napoleonic code of guilty until proven innocent, I think the USADA works differently.

"The International Cycling Union, the sport's governing body, said it would ask USA Cycling to open disciplinary proceedings. Documentation from the positive tests will be forwarded to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which will turn it over to a review panel. USADA will ultimately decide if a penalty — likely a two-year ban — is appropriate. Landis can accept the decision or begin an appeals process, which can take up to six months and involve the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

UCI lawyer Philippe Verbiest said Landis would officially remain Tour champion pending that process. The decision to strip him of his title rests with UCI.

"Until he is found guilty or admits guilt, he will keep the yellow jersey," he said. "This is normal. You are not sanctioned before you are found guilty.""

Back up test for Landis proves positive.

"But the result showing synthetic testosterone does not need to be confirmed with a second test, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine.

"The rules say that it is a violation, but if you can show that the athlete had no fault or no significant fault, there could be a mitigation of the sanction," Wadler told the Times. "No matter how it got there, the athlete has to show how it got into his or her body. It could have been sabotage or contaminated dietary supplements, or something else, but they have to prove how the testosterone got there.""

Landis had synthetic testosterone

What a scandal if it could be proven than Phonak was doping it's own athletes unbeknownst to them. What a great movie of the week.

Of course if it turns out the samples are not tainted but Landis was doped without his knowing...how sad. To know you really didn't win on your own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 5 2006, 08:27 PM) [snapback]298448[/snapback]</div>

I was unclear, so to clarify my point: Exogneous, synthetic T has the same potency as endogenous. Unless the levels are supra-physiologic, where is the gain ?. Skin cream may be an easy administration route, but high levles of chemical in muscle *will* show up in blood and urine too.

Not related to my point above, but to comment on chronic T use: that is picked up with T/epiT ratio abnormalities, which *would* be noticeable for quite a while, because of the endogenous feedback inhibition you mention.

 

I see little activity in this thread. One week old, and out of mind ?

The WSJ summarized the questions and answers as known so far here.

Nothing really new from what has been posted by me and others in this thread, but all in one place and summarized nicely.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ Aug 10 2006, 10:22 PM) [snapback]301326[/snapback]</div>

What 'court' will that be? As far as I know and have read, the UCI results are pretty much the final arbiter. Did I miss something?

 

According to an ESPN article ( http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2539409 ):

From this it looks like the 'court' will be the US Anti-Doping Agency.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in this case. I'm more interested in what will happen with Justin Gatlin.